Will streamers disappear?

[Mescalito]

So you have a home server computer and a NAS computer, receiving instructions from your handheld computer to send data to a streamer computer containing the DAC . . . and that's as simple as it gets?!

Simple is: one computer/DAC containing all your stuff and pulling media from the web using your mobile device as a remote - connected to active speakers. No NAS required. And what Tony said.

So much for convenience. For any of that to sound any good, there's no escape from GIGO - or RIRO as we Brits have it.

The home server computer is my home computer serving my home network of 3 PCs dotted around the house.

The home server does not even have to be switched on for my system to work seamlessly. In the context of my hi fi system, it is an irrelevance.

And cloud storage for my 6.9Tb of audio files is not a practical proposition.

So, I have a NAS, connected to my Router-Modem & my streamer connected to my router modem & my active speakers.

One rather discrete box is all that is visible in the listening room.

What you sell is mostly doomed to becoming a tiny, tiny market.

Chris

 

[EIffel]

I think the future is a simple rented box, similar to what cable TV companies provide (but using Wifi or similar technology), with a way to interface with TV and Audio systems.

This could also double as an internet router, although separating the two has some advantage.

An example of this concept are the Internet/TV solutions which are widely used elsewhere in the world (e.g. Freebox in France). These act as NAS, streamers, Blu-ray players, game consoles and much more.

One subscription, and one company to blame if things go wrong!

 

[banjoman]

The future is cloud-based, of that I am certain. The UK will just be 10 years or so behind the curve as our infrastructure is so poor. By saying that I guess future mobile technology may level the field a bit, i.e. negate the need to dig every road up to put proper broadband capacity in.

I agree that cloud storage is the way forward but dont believe that mobile technology will replace fixed broadband at least for the next 5 years. While it will definitely be wireless within the home, the actual external connectivity from the home will be fibre optic based - especially to support multi use bandwidth heavy requirements like streaming and cloud apps. Mobile technology has some fundamental bandwidth and performance constraints compared to fixed broadband and fixed will remain ahead of mobile in terms of performance and upstream/downstream bandwidth for the foreseeable future. Of course, our 'on the move' usage will increase as mobile broadband improves, but the requirements and expectations of that usage is quite different from that inside a typical connected home.

 

[beammeup]

The cloud solution Style Jukebox gets close to accommodating a large calalogue of your own personal music collection: http://www.get-jukebox.com/en/premium.html - which as you see you can store as lossless - I would recommend a good Internet connection of course but FTTC is becoming more common so the infrastructure is there to support it.

Although I personally get on well with Spotify allowing me explore a massive catalogue of music, I find if the source streamer is of good quality it eeks the musicality out of Spotify really well to the point where I am satisfied. Spotify Connect wrapped up in a high quality case is therefore my ideal solution.

I supplement the above with a good record deck to remind myself how good this format can sound. But CD's and those awful jewel cases are no more for me!

 

[darrenyeats]

My definition of a streamer is a device that serves up media over a NETWORK. Streamers have many advantages in my view (flexibility in the home, no moving parts required) irrespective of where the stream originates (cloud media service, local NAS, local computer etc).

A device that within itself holds media in mass storage is something more than a streamer.

Using these definitions, no streamers will not disappear but they might change form or get combined with other things.

There's an argument about whether a proprietary music streamer (something like a Touch or Sonos) or a PC/laptop as a music streamer is better. I think a proprietary music streamer is neater and smaller if you want just music but I'd consider a fanless HTPC if I needed more functions in addition to music streaming.

 

[ItemAudio]

The home server computer is my home computer serving my home network of 3 PCs dotted around the house.

The home server does not even have to be switched on for my system to work seamlessly. In the context of my hi fi system, it is an irrelevance.

And cloud storage for my 6.9Tb of audio files is not a practical proposition.

So, I have a NAS, connected to my Router-Modem & my streamer connected to my router modem & my active speakers.

One rather discrete box is all that is visible in the listening room.

What you sell is mostly doomed to becoming a tiny, tiny market.

Chris

As we sell everything you currently own, evidently not!

But Tony has an inevitable point: storage is cheap getting cheaper. Integrating it into your main player and using it to serve other clients would be one stage simpler. Imminently 10Gb personal cloudspace will be as common as doorbells - which will make your system simpler still.

For reasons I explained, I suspect the standalone DAC will outlive the NAS, as the preamp outlived the floppy disk.

 

[Chops54]

Joe public is no more likely to buy a CD player or vinyl rig than he is a slide rule. Both are yesterday's tecnology.

Joe public listens to his music via his phone or laptop already.

Chris

I listen to all my music via my turntable or my cdp as do many others. I still use my Pioneer fm tuner too. I don't listen to any music on my iPhone, in fact there's none on it. Chrisletts is absolutely right in his assumption.

 

[mattgbell]

I think we'll see the outboard dac disappear, definitely not the streamer though this will become more integrated.
They (dacs) are largely a waste of time and just an unnecessary extra box and set of connections.

I disagree: the market for small (desktop) USB DAC/headphone amps is growing. People want to listen to music through their headphones while they work or surf. The USB DAC/headphone amp is a very useful add-on to a desktop PC or laptop.

The same piece of kit can connect your computer to your hi-fi amp or active speakers. Nice job!

 

[ItemAudio]

My definition of a streamer is a device that serves up media over a NETWORK. Streamers have many advantages in my view (flexibility in the home, no moving parts required) irrespective of where the stream originates (cloud media service, local NAS, local computer etc).

A device that within holds media in mass storage is something more than a streamer.

Using these definitions, no streamers will not disappear but they might change form or get combined with other things.

There's an argument about whether a proprietary music streamer (something like a Touch or Sonos) or a PC/laptop as a music streamer is better. I think a proprietary music streamer is neater and smaller if you want just music but I'd consider a fanless HTPC if I needed more functions in addition to music streaming.

I sincerely wish 'streamer' didn't exist. It's an audiophile nonce-word. Broadly, though, I agree with you. The presence of on-board storage, video playback and/or a DAC should change the definition . . . as it stands, anything that can read any digital content stored remotely (ie, anything not a CD player) is a 'streamer'. Or steamer, as some of us enjoyed for the last dozen posts. Whatever, I vote for the term's abolition.

 

[ItemAudio]

I disagree: the market for small (desktop) USB DAC/headphone amps is growing. People want to listen to music through their headphones while they work or surf. The USB DAC/headphone amp is a very useful add-on to a desktop PC or laptop.

The same piece of kit can connect your computer to your hi-fi amp or active speakers. Nice job!

Another good example of a counter-trend. Desktop and headphone listening have created their own - growing - product categories that show no sign of weakening in the foreseeable future.

 

[darrenyeats]

Cloud versus NAS versus whatever is irrelevant as far as I can see, that's just the source of the stream. This thread is more concerned with the kind of device people "want to use in their living room" or, if they're audiophiles, "want to connect to their audio system".

Stand-alone DACs (requiring a streamer transport) are more aimed at the latter market, where buyers prioritise sound quality over everything else. For this to change an industry-standard streaming platform would need to emerge, either open-source or licensed, that all the DAC manufacturers can drop in like S/PDIF or USB. Personally I thought this was a good route for Slim Devices years ago, when they had a head start.

 

[Alan Sircom]

My take on this:

10 years from now, the idea of having your own storage at home will become increasingly rare. We'll be storing everything on the cloud, and accessing it everywhere. And this will become so integrated into our lives that anything else would seem as alien, as remote, and as primitive as our lives before the internet seem today.

We are already moving away from desktop computers with large spinning discs to laptops with smaller SSD drives, the logic being the computer does the work while off-board storage does what it's good at. It's only one short jump from having that storage in a local drive to moving that local drive to a central location. Some of us have already done this.

At which point, the lines between 'DAC' and 'networked audio device' should become blurred to the point of being all but identical.

The only point here I'd be willing to argue is the time-line. It could be five years. It could be three. I doubt it would be more than 10.

 

[Mescalito]

I listen to all my music via my turntable or my cdp as do many others. I still use my Pioneer fm tuner too. I don't listen to any music on my iPhone, in fact there's none on it. Chrisletts is absolutely right in his assumption.

But you have to accept that you are in a rapidly shrinking & , in real terms, irrelevant minority.

Chris

 

[onlyconnect]

With high performance affordable asynchronous USB dacs appearing why would you need a streamer? All is needed is a laptop or a mac mini to hold the music library and feed a USB dac with the digital output you want.

Streaming is essential for me, for multi-room.

Tim

 

[abbydog]

Its a networked world, guys.

 

[Chops54]

But you have to accept that you are in a rapidly shrinking & , in real terms, irrelevant minority.

Chris

I don't know if I am a minority Chris. Out of a couple of dozen hifi friends I only know two who do the computer audio thing. The rest all listen to vinyl and use cd for convenience.
Anyway I though we were supposed to bend over backwards for minority groups

 

[Julf]

At which point, the lines between 'DAC' and 'networked audio device' should become blurred to the point of being all but identical.

Indeed, and as we can see from the raspberry pi based stuff, we are already at the point where adding network streaming capacity and a DAC to a system/device costs very little space and power, and maybe 25 quid - and it is rapidly getting cheaper and smaller. So any audio device (be it speaker, phone or clock radio) will soon have "network streaming capability".

 

[Tony L]

I agree that cloud storage is the way forward but dont believe that mobile technology will replace fixed broadband at least for the next 5 years. While it will definitely be wireless within the home, the actual external connectivity from the home will be fibre optic based - especially to support multi use bandwidth heavy requirements like streaming and cloud apps. Mobile technology has some fundamental bandwidth and performance constraints compared to fixed broadband and fixed will remain ahead of mobile in terms of performance and upstream/downstream bandwidth for the foreseeable future. Of course, our 'on the move' usage will increase as mobile broadband improves, but the requirements and expectations of that usage is quite different from that inside a typical connected home.

My main concern is politically the UK is so backward I suspect we will fall even further behind the curve than we are now. I'd be amazed if my typical Lancashire street gets anything better than the bog-standard ADSL capability we have now over the next 5 years, and if I cycle over to Hebden Bridge for my lunch I can't even get 3G on my phone! Much of the UK broadband and mobile coverage is utterly pathetic and entirely unsuited to the type of large data transfer that will be commonplace within the next few years. Our two joke political parties have nothing remotely coherent in the bag to address this as far as I can see.

 

[Julf]

I don't know if I am a minority Chris. Out of a couple of dozen hifi friends I only know two who do the computer audio thing.

But out of your *non*-hifi friends, how many of them do their music from anything else than a computer or a digital music player/phone?

 

[amazement]

My main concern is politically the UK is so backward I suspect we will fall even further behind the curve than we are now. I'd be amazed if my typical Lancashire street gets anything better than the bog-standard ADSL capability we have now over the next 5 years, and if I cycle over to Hebden Bridge for my lunch I can't even get 3G on my phone! Much of the UK broadband and mobile coverage is utterly pathetic and entirely unsuited to the type of large data transfer that will be commonplace within the next few years. Our two joke political parties have nothing remotely coherent in the bag to address this as far as I can see.

Surely it must come down to demand and costs, not enough demand makes it not worth it on a cost basis for any one to improve matters.