Will streamers disappear?

[ItemAudio]

From my personal experience a dedicated streamer "sounds" better than a standard computer (although I've not tried a Mac Mini yet) - however - I've never bothered to soup up and fine tune a computer to the nth degree (take a look on the JPlay website to see how far you can go!).

A solid streamer like a Yamaha CD-N500 or Marantz NA 7004 already have the good quality power supplies, no moving parts, SQ optimisations, decent S/PDIF connectivity, so you don't need to bother faffing around with upgrades - and you have dedicated software for playing the music without sharing it's resources to compete with IO operations elsewhere.

Pretty spot-on summary.
The trouble with SPDIF is that isn't USB.
The trouble with USB is that it's not universal.

There's no doubt that an audio-developed PC is the top rung of the ladder, sonically, but it still 'feels wrong' to buy one for many - and it's not quite as plug and play, although - in reality - once set up, it's just as appliance-like.

I've been really impressed by devices like the Lumin recently: the future looks more Lumin-shaped to me than anything recognisably involving a PC.

 

[Mescalito]

From my personal experience a dedicated streamer "sounds" better than a standard computer (although I've not tried a Mac Mini yet) - however - I've never bothered to soup up and fine tune a computer to the nth degree (take a look on the JPlay website to see how far you can go!).

A solid streamer like a Yamaha CD-N500 or Marantz NA 7004 already have the good quality power supplies, no moving parts, SQ optimisations, decent S/PDIF connectivity, so you don't need to bother faffing around with upgrades - and you have dedicated software for playing the music without sharing it's resources to compete with IO operations elsewhere.

Incidently, what's wrong with the datalink between NAS & streamer being Ethernet based?

Chris

 

[beammeup]

TBH I don't really know - I'm using an Ethernet based connection from my Yam CD-N500 - however I believe the advantages maybe in the quality of the connectivity to external DAC, and decent power supplies from the outset. You see many individuals upgrading power supplies for Sonos, Squeezboxes and even PCs - but with the likes of the aforementioned more solid streamers its all pretty much sorted as part of the design where SQ matters as much as the convenience of streaming.

 

[Tony L]

With high performance affordable asynchronous USB dacs appearing why would you need a streamer? All is needed is a laptop or a mac mini to hold the music library and feed a USB dac with the digital output you want.

Not complicated enough to sound good?

To my mind Apple have the design concept exactly right, e.g. a "streamer" is just a tiny little box that sits somewhere near your audio kit (Airport Express) or your TV (Apple TV). I can't understand the point of a separate 'streaming box' with it's own clunky interface and idiosyncrasies. A "streamer" need be nothing more that an interface between home information technology and an audio or AV system.

 

[ItemAudio]

Incidently, what's wrong with the datalink between NAS & streamer being Ethernet based?

Chris

The NAS occupies a tricky evolutionary niche: squeezed between 'streamers' containing terabytes of onboard storage, and the increasing trend toward cloud-based multimedia storage, retrieval and streaming. And let's not forget your tablet or smartphone is a fully-equipped streaming computer, too - another possible future (and viable present) is simply to buy network equipped audio components and let the tablet do the work.

Three computers to play one track? A NAS looks increasingly expendable to me . . .

 

[JezmondTutu]

For normal people, steamers are a revelation!!

This.

Us nerds may want to mess around with Dac's but for 99.999% of people a streamer (Sonos/AirPlay etc) is the way to go.

I have streamer (SBT), async dac and vinyl plus Bluetooth - they all have their place and their own merits.

 

[zippy]

"For normal people, steamers are a revelation!!"

Sorry, have to disagree - streaming is a niche market - 'Joe Public' wants a simple solution to playing music, not one which involves configuring computers, setting up home networks with NAS drives, ripping CD's, and all the other complications.

Even my elderly mother can put in a cd and press play - she wouldn't even know how to turn on a computer.

It's the hifi enthusiasts that are driving streaming as the means to music, and for most of whom the complications are part of the fun.

 

[Robert]

With high performance affordable asynchronous USB dacs appearing why would you need a streamer? All is needed is a laptop or a mac mini to hold the music library and feed a USB dac with the digital output you want.

Not complicated enough to sound good?

I think we'll see the outboard dac disappear, definitely not the streamer though this will become more integrated.
They (dacs) are largely a waste of time and just an unnecessary extra box and set of connections.

We'll likely see streaming become increasingly integrated into other products, i.e. we'll see a move back to one box does all.

There will always be fringe products of course, but the market will go from tiny to vanishing.

 

[CJ1045]

Who wants a laptop sitting in their lounge!! I suspect that the most likely option that will die is the USB one. Single box streamers will be the one that will prevail. After all they are only a DAC and a network port.

CJ

 

[muzzer]

What is wrong with a laptop in the lounge?????

 

[Tony L]

Who wants a laptop sitting in their lounge!! I suspect that the most likely option that will die is the USB one. Single box streamers will be the one that will prevail. After all they are only a DAC and a network port.

The future is cloud storage and wireless, e.g. just a small interface/DAC unit in your hi-fi and an iPad or whatever as a control device. Anything beyond that will become unnecessary even for folk like myself who are obsessed with hunting down the best mastering for a given title (i.e. subscription streaming wouldn't really work for me).

 

[ItemAudio]

I think we'll see the outboard dac disappear, definitely not the streamer though this will become more integrated.
They (dacs) are largely a waste of time and just an unnecessary extra box and set of connections.

We'll likely see streaming become increasingly integrated into other products, i.e. we'll see a move back to one box does all.

There will always be fringe products of course, but the market will go from tiny to vanishing.

Up to a point, you agree with me. However, nowadays trends don't tend to shift smoothly and inexorably in one direction, they bounce: for every trend toward the convenience of a one-box integrated device, there will be counter-trends toward a better two-box version. And the high end of 'proper' audio will, I think, always be dominated by 'modularism': two-box sources, external power supplies, etc.

And from that will trickle down a modest middle market. And from the IT community will trickle up the requirement for self-selected and upgradeable 'soundcards'.

So I'm not convinced the future for the standalone DAC is much different from its present status. Its market share will gradually be eroded by integrated devices, but the driver will continue to be the top-down impetus to make gadgets 'smarter' - not market pressure to make them sound better. Therefore the processor will be pushed into the DAC, amp and speakers, not vice versa!

 

[beammeup]

I think we'll see the outboard dac disappear, definitely not the streamer though this will become more integrated.
They (dacs) are largely a waste of time and just an unnecessary extra box and set of connections.

We'll likely see streaming become increasingly integrated into other products, i.e. we'll see a move back to one box does all.

There will always be fringe products of course, but the market will go from tiny to vanishing.

For me (and this only applies to me for my tastes and convenience of course) I like and recognise the abilities of various DACs, I particularly like the ladder DAC sound (even though it may not be perfect). So an integrated dedicated streamer design with good power regulation and an option to change the DAC "internally" - like a DAC board (much like a PCI card in a computer) to suite taste would be my perfect all-in-one dedicated streamer.

Oh and with Spotify Connect built in too....

 

[Mescalito]

The NAS occupies a tricky evolutionary niche: squeezed between 'streamers' containing terabytes of onboard storage, and the increasing trend toward cloud-based multimedia storage, retrieval and streaming. And let's not forget your tablet or smartphone is a fully-equipped streaming computer, too - another possible future (and viable present) is simply to buy network equipped audio components and let the tablet do the work.

Three computers to play one track? A NAS looks increasingly expendable to me . . .

I have 6.9 Terabytes of .flac files on my NAS. Try finding a cloud storage solution or a tablet to store that lot.

I use an iPad to control my system. It was not bought as a controller for my system, it was bought as a laptop replacement (something, incidently, which it just is not, but that's another matter).

So my system consists of a remote NAS, and a streamer. I do not have to worry about various types of USB, SPDIF, Firewire, extermal DACs, Power supplies, special "audiophile" computers. And Ethernet delivers the data with 100% accuracy, 100% of the time.

Of course, this is very bad news to people who make their living from selling audiophile versions of the above.

The NAS is totally independant of my home server, and has an extremely low consumption sleep mode, so can econmically be left on 24/7, so my music is always instantly on tap.

IMO, my system is about as simple as it gets. I have active speakers, so it's essentially a one box solution.

Chris

 

[Tony L]

So I'm not sure the future for the standalone DAC is much different from its present incarnation.

My guess is USB will vanish pretty swiftly as it's an obsolete interface. DACs will have wi-fi to interface with IT equipment and optical to support legacy CD transports, i.e. the DAC and what is currently viewed as a "streamer" will converge into a single small box. Apple are already there conceptually, but there is still room to improve performance a little.

 

[Mescalito]

"For normal people, steamers are a revelation!!"

Sorry, have to disagree - streaming is a niche market - 'Joe Public' wants a simple solution to playing music, not one which involves configuring computers, setting up home networks with NAS drives, ripping CD's, and all the other complications.

Even my elderly mother can put in a cd and press play - she wouldn't even know how to turn on a computer.

It's the hifi enthusiasts that are driving streaming as the means to music, and for most of whom the complications are part of the fun.

Joe public is no more likely to buy a CD player or vinyl rig than he is a slide rule. Both are yesterday's tecnology.

Joe public listens to his music via his phone or laptop already.

Chris

 

[Tony L]

I have 6.9 Terabytes of .flac files on my NAS. Try finding a cloud storage solution or a tablet to store that lot.

Such cloud storage solutions exist already, albeit in an expensive form at present. Give it 5 years and that will be common-place. You also need to factor geography into this, the UK is a primitive backwater when it comes to broadband infrastructure so other countries will get this technology well ahead of us. In fact I bet it's all there already in Calafornia, South Korea etc etc.

Tablets will never have that kind of data capacity as they will never need it. The future is cloud-based, of that I am certain. The UK will just be 10 years or so behind the curve as our infrastructure is so poor. By saying that I guess future mobile technology may level the field a bit, i.e. negate the need to dig every road up to put proper broadband capacity in.

 

[ItemAudio]

I have 6.9 Terabytes of .flac files on my NAS. Try finding a cloud storage solution or a tablet to store that lot.

I use an iPad to control my system. It was not bought as a controller for my system, it was bought as a laptop replacement (something, incidently, which it just is not, but that's another matter).

So my system consists of a remote NAS, and a streamer. I do not have to worry about various types of USB, SPDIF, Firewire, extermal DACs, Power supplies, special "audiophile" computers. And Ethernet delivers the data with 100% accuracy, 100% of the time.

Of course, this is very bad news to people who make their living from selling audiophile versions of the above.

The NAS is totally independant of my home server, and has an extremely low consumption sleep mode, so can econmically be left on 24/7, so my music is always instantly on tap.

IMO, my system is about as simple as it gets. I have active speakers, so it's essentially a one box solution.

Chris

So you have a home server computer and a NAS computer, receiving instructions from your handheld computer to send data to a streamer computer containing the DAC . . . and that's as simple as it gets?!

Simple is: one computer/DAC containing all your stuff and pulling media from the web using your mobile device as a remote - connected to active speakers. No NAS required. And what Tony said.

So much for convenience. For any of that to sound any good, there's no escape from GIGO - or RIRO as we Brits have it.

 

[Mescalito]

I think we'll see the outboard dac disappear, definitely not the streamer though this will become more integrated.
They (dacs) are largely a waste of time and just an unnecessary extra box and set of connections.

We'll likely see streaming become increasingly integrated into other products, i.e. we'll see a move back to one box does all.

There will always be fringe products of course, but the market will go from tiny to vanishing.

Agree 100%.

Chris

 

[PhilCTTE]

I think you underestimate just the how tech savvy people are becoming . Streaming is second nature to the youngsters. My nine year old has been doing it for 3 years , first with an iPod nano. Now he's capable of connecting to my home network and playing from my nas based music library.
A lot of these streamers have pretty poor UI and ridiculous small menu based screen displays. Most don't even have USB connection to a DAC. Plug and play to an extent, but restricted in what they can do by proprietary software.
Streamers such as SONOS make sense in numerous ways , multi room , ease of use , reliability , plug and play, and integration of other services like spotify. As long as you don't mind the lack of ultimate resolution. And it's the final point why I sold mine!