Why do decent audio cables cost so much?
- Thread starter rontoolsie
- Start date
paulfromcamden
Baffled
That sucks. Thankfully when my brain goes a bit wrong I can't listen to music so I'm saved all that.
Wishing you a calm brain and good moods.
I always think of these endless cable posts in much the same way. If you could see your electron path from the mains breaker to your loudspeaker cones laid out you’d have to lay your hat out to the laws of physics and admit it probably doesn’t really amount to a hill of beans, unless the cables are hopeless at conducting.
darrenyeats
pfm Member
Apart from the sporadic sarky comment, I don't think about cable threads at all.
Purple Fuse
www.synergisticresearch.com
Never heard one so no opinion but wouldn't pay £200 for a fuse just out of principle.A pound maybe
Their margins must be huge...
But what is the principle behind really? Just someone’s margin?
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Yes, but only underwater.
Sell three and go on holiday?
TQ cable cost to much but greed and distribution take a massive chunk.
EWA cable the material cost is very high about 10 times more than TQ. But ABCaudio sell direct. As to R&D I did that all in the 1980 with Inca Tech before TQ but nobody thought it could be better than wet string. They also poo pooed my Gold Plated Power connectors odd how now everybody and his cat copy it.
No imagination or original thought just copy cats.
But I suspect my 3 Degree count for zero in there eyes.
EWA cable the material cost is very high about 10 times more than TQ. But ABCaudio sell direct. As to R&D I did that all in the 1980 with Inca Tech before TQ but nobody thought it could be better than wet string. They also poo pooed my Gold Plated Power connectors odd how now everybody and his cat copy it.
No imagination or original thought just copy cats.
But I suspect my 3 Degree count for zero in there eyes.
gez
pfm Member
Like I said, there hasn't been a copper undersea cable layed for decades. You're continuous need for one up manship really is tedious.
gez
pfm Member
Because Satellite is hugely expensive in comparison. Laying undersea cable is expensive but it pales in to nothing compared to the cost of putting a satellite up. Satelite is also susceptible to atmospherics. Cable is a known quantity and provides a known performance all the time. (barring failures of repeaters etc).
With the exception of this one obviously.
geetee1972
pfm Member
Whenever I see a cable thread on PFM I always end up wondering if I've actually landed on a forum aimed at audiophiles. Dop any of you actually own and listen to audio equipment? I really don't understand why expensive cables are hard for some people to understand when expensive amps and DACs aren't.
I have expensive cables in my system - my RCA and SPDIF cables, made by Z-Axis Audio were about £2200 each for a 1m pair. My speaker cables were about £3k for a 1m run and my interconnect retailed originally for a whopping £7k (although it is 5m long and I got it for cost at £2,600). The mains cables were about £1000 each for the ones on the power amps, but I use MCRU £150 jobs for the other electronics.
In the context of my system the total spend on cables is about 17% of the total. They were the cables I opted to buy becuause they gave me the results I wanted when I listened to them. these improvements were objectively assessed and easy to assess. The choices each broght significant improvements to two main areas: bass response was the first and most obvious improvement, especially with the use of silver in the signal loom. The other was improvement to the leading edge of notes; that PRAT thing. Importantly that improvement never made the music sound fatiguing like Naim PRAT tends to do.
The price was something I could afford so that's what I bought. I compared them to other options available and was happy to spend the money, just like I was really happy to spend the money on my whole system. Having watched Paul at Z-Axis hand make his cables I can see why he has to charge what he does. The material cost (in his cables case, pure silver), is very high and he makes the cables by hand in a very intricate way so it's time consuming.
I don't think price is really the issue here though - maybe it is value. It's very easy to find expensive cables that don't work in your own system in a way that is pleasing and also not difficult to find inexpensive ones that are. The trick is to find the one that is best for the budget you have. If you have patience, an open mind and aren't actually deaf, then cables are an excellent way to fine tune and optimise your enjoyment of the music.
I have expensive cables in my system - my RCA and SPDIF cables, made by Z-Axis Audio were about £2200 each for a 1m pair. My speaker cables were about £3k for a 1m run and my interconnect retailed originally for a whopping £7k (although it is 5m long and I got it for cost at £2,600). The mains cables were about £1000 each for the ones on the power amps, but I use MCRU £150 jobs for the other electronics.
In the context of my system the total spend on cables is about 17% of the total. They were the cables I opted to buy becuause they gave me the results I wanted when I listened to them. these improvements were objectively assessed and easy to assess. The choices each broght significant improvements to two main areas: bass response was the first and most obvious improvement, especially with the use of silver in the signal loom. The other was improvement to the leading edge of notes; that PRAT thing. Importantly that improvement never made the music sound fatiguing like Naim PRAT tends to do.
The price was something I could afford so that's what I bought. I compared them to other options available and was happy to spend the money, just like I was really happy to spend the money on my whole system. Having watched Paul at Z-Axis hand make his cables I can see why he has to charge what he does. The material cost (in his cables case, pure silver), is very high and he makes the cables by hand in a very intricate way so it's time consuming.
I don't think price is really the issue here though - maybe it is value. It's very easy to find expensive cables that don't work in your own system in a way that is pleasing and also not difficult to find inexpensive ones that are. The trick is to find the one that is best for the budget you have. If you have patience, an open mind and aren't actually deaf, then cables are an excellent way to fine tune and optimise your enjoyment of the music.
Hazelberry
sister
This approach comes over to me as what I call audiophilia nervosa. I had it for a time, until I was able to enjoy life much more than I had been.
I feel that apportioning a percentage of total value to cables is old fashioned marketing dogma meant to benefit manufacturers & retailers.
I see hi-fi as a means to enjoying music. I care much less about hi-fi values like the veriest detail. I want the music be all of a piece. I’ve had fun putting my system together over the last 35 years & am very happy with my system, modest as it may seem to some.
So, personally, I find this all a bit patronising, sorry to say.
rontoolsie
pfm Member
I'm sure this comment will get lost in the noise...but here it goes anyway.
Objectivists can well argue that cables all sound pretty much the same, unless they are faulty or extremely poorly designed.
So there should be no subjective difference between an entry level cable and a Statement cable from the same vendor.
Will the same reasoning not also apply to power supplies. For instance a Hicap and a Supercap use near identical parts and have near identical measurements. Yet......
Yet... there is a wide chasm in the subjective performances between them. Even when I used a low end NAC 42.5 preamp the Hicap sounded compressed and rolled off in the audio bandwidth compared to the essentially identically performing Supercap.
Just saying....
Objectivists can well argue that cables all sound pretty much the same, unless they are faulty or extremely poorly designed.
So there should be no subjective difference between an entry level cable and a Statement cable from the same vendor.
Will the same reasoning not also apply to power supplies. For instance a Hicap and a Supercap use near identical parts and have near identical measurements. Yet......
Yet... there is a wide chasm in the subjective performances between them. Even when I used a low end NAC 42.5 preamp the Hicap sounded compressed and rolled off in the audio bandwidth compared to the essentially identically performing Supercap.
Just saying....
Joe
pfm Member
Whenever I see a cable thread on PFM ............I wonder ' do any of you actually own and listen to music?'
There is such an obsessive equipment fetish shown by some people that I wonder for their mental health. There is another group who seem to think that the more of their bits of equipment are at the top of the "audiophile" wet dream lists the clearly better their system must be.
It's sad to observe because one knows that there will always be 'the next thing' that will be touted and again that grinding worry will be there..." do I have the best?" " do I need to change my system?"
My answer for you @geelee 1972 is "No" I do not listen to audio equipment, and I pray to God that I am not, and never become, an "audiophile".
My hifi is merely a means to a very enjoyable and joyous end and not an end in itself.