Weekender
pfm Member
Even the collectors may baulk at these...and then buy them anyway. For purely display purposes the tubes will not display as well as boxes. 2mins 30secs:
Whisky II
- Thread starter hifilover1979
- Start date
Elephantears
Trunkated Aesthete
I first had a bottle of Talisker Distillers edition in 2008 and I loved it. It was a favourite for a few years but then at some point (I think around 2016) I stopped liking it so much. I can't say how much that was down to my taste changing, but I think this is around the time when Talisker introduced all those cheap over-salty sea editions and I thought they were going downhill a bit. However, I've really come back to Talisker with the most recent bottling of the 10 year old, which I think is great.
I'll be very interested to hear about your visit.
I do wonder how much the distillers and blenders evolve their products over time. I remember that Laphroaig used to be extremely phenolic. 18YO Laphroaig (in sharp contrast to comments above about age reducing phenol/peat flavours) was even more so, and had me wrinkling my nose. I was polite, but I really didn't like it. This would have been in the early 90s. These days i find standard (10 YO?) Laphroaig a shadow of its former self in terms of phenol and much more accessible, I don't think that this can be solely the result of my tastes changing. Any ideas?
jimbob75
pfm Member
^^Changes to methods of fermentation and distilling, mechanisation, sources of barley, quality of cask stock, new distillery managers and blenders, market demands for specific flavour profiles, 'softening' of flavours to increase market share and maximise profit. Chill filtering, abv.
Whisky is always evolving. Many whiskies are released annually with batch numbers and drinkers celebrate these changes. The big blends have large volumes of stock so is easier to maintain consistency for a market that wants it.
Btw, after last night's 'mishap' I can report that my kitchen still smells of an Islay dunnage warehouse. Lovely.
Whisky is always evolving. Many whiskies are released annually with batch numbers and drinkers celebrate these changes. The big blends have large volumes of stock so is easier to maintain consistency for a market that wants it.
Btw, after last night's 'mishap' I can report that my kitchen still smells of an Islay dunnage warehouse. Lovely.
SteveG
pfm Member
Certainly for myself there is an element of my taste evolving now that I'm a little bit more experienced. I've always like the Laphroaig 10 but partly that was for the shock factor of how peaty it was, however I've a bit more experience with peaty whisky now (I even have an Octomore) so while I still like it, the context of my experience is different.
On Talisker - I've got bottles of their 10-year plus one each of the Skye and the Storm (both of the latter bought cheap when on sale in the supermarket). Skye and Storm aren't terrible but they mostly get used for old fashioneds and smokey cokies. The 10 I think is pretty good, especially for the £30 or so it can often be found at. I've not tried anything better from them yet!
On Talisker - I've got bottles of their 10-year plus one each of the Skye and the Storm (both of the latter bought cheap when on sale in the supermarket). Skye and Storm aren't terrible but they mostly get used for old fashioneds and smokey cokies. The 10 I think is pretty good, especially for the £30 or so it can often be found at. I've not tried anything better from them yet!
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
It’s been a while since I drank it, but I used to enjoy Laphroaig (just the regular 10, none of the premium or cask strength stuff). But I do seem to remember it as a bit of a one-trick pony. Massively front-loaded with peat and phenols, but not much else going on to keep you interested after that first hit. Am I mis-remembering?
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
It’s had its ups and downs over the years. It was the dram that caused me to fall in love with single malt in the late 80’s. Briny, peppery, smoky, spicy, wonderfully complex. Lost its way for a few years, down to poor cask selection imo, but the last 10 YO I bought seemed to be getting back on track. If you can source a bottle 57° North, it’s very much the Talisker I fell in love with.
Elephantears
Trunkated Aesthete
Yes, that's what I fell in love with too - more in the mid 90s I think. I think the briny, peppery, and smoky notes have been largely replaced by the salted caramel doiminance, but it's still got the fiery quality of old.
I wonder if this shift is related to chocolate and ice cream fashions - this is, after all, the age of salted caramel. Which I do love, but where do we go for the peppery and smoky? Since the Lagavulin pricing fiasco I've been lacking a good smoked peat favourite.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Ardmore not bad, especially for the price.
Weekender
pfm Member
Tried Benromach?
https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/benromach/benromach-10-year-old-whisky/
I'm with this Reviewer:
"I don't know where the descriptors from MOM came from for their tasting notes but they are way off, so here is mine:
This is a TRADITIONAL Speyside, so guess what you will find? Peat! And wow is it an amazing nose on top of the barley sugar, cake, raisins, clove, spice etc."
See also their Peat Smoke Sherry Cask.
Oos at MoM but can be had elsewhere.
https://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/benromach/benromach-contrasts-peat-smoke-sherry-cask-whisky/
https://www.kosherwinecellar.co.uk/...peat-smoke-2012-sherry-oak-bottled-2021-p4237
Yes, the mechanics of it I know. It's just a food manufacturing process like any other. Methods of fermentation can very little, it's a known and optimised process. Likewise distillation, you don't reconstruct several hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of equipment in a hurry. In addition the distilleries make a big deal of tradition, same stills used since Year Dot, etc. Barley you specify from the maltsters, the first is selected every year, the same as grist for flour. Casks will be the same, you can just buy new American oak, first fill sherry, bourbon, beer, the lot. You put it together like any recipe, and the flavour profiles you can analyse in the usual ways. Much as the distillers would like to kid you that it's magic and alchemy, it's just a manufacturing and assemblage process. Dial in what you want, blend it accordingly. No harder than me making a strawberry yogurt and deciding whether my flavour needs to be jammy, fresh, sharp, sweet, ripe, green, etc. What I'm more interested in, and what's far more significant, is the shifts in the market, how that is understood and steered by marketing, and so on.
Elephantears
Trunkated Aesthete
No - it sounds good, thanks. But before seeing your post I just ordered an Arran 10, which is a good price on Amazon. When my bottles of Ardbeg Coryvekran and Ledaig are finished I'll order something a bit more craggy and intense.
Weekender
pfm Member
Fermentation times are being varied significantly especially by the smaller newer outfits. Has an impact creating fruitier styles for younger whiskies.
It's argued that modern high yield barley is inferior to older varieties. There is some experimentation going on with different and/or local strains e.g. Bruichladdich.
Casks imo are the big one and vary enormously in quality...and their impact on flavour. Inferior casks are possibly the biggest reason for the argued reduction in quality of especially sherry-driven (sherry production is continuing to fall and old style European sherried whisky is becoming rarer) whiskies but also in a more general way across the industry with the use of 4th fill to drive volume and margins over quality.
Weekender
pfm Member
@stevec67 This is a good article on Laphroaig, particularly:
"Generally speaking the production methods across the industry have seen significant alterations over the years and Laphroaig is no exception. Where once the barley was gently peated for many days by burning the peat at low temperatures (the key was that you wanted the peat to smoke and smoulder, but not have an open or detectable flame), the past fermentation times and yeast strains used may have resulted in sweeter flavours, the barley was malted on-site at the distillery’s own malting floors, and the stock was aged in warehouses located on-site.
Nowadays, the peating process is done at high temperatures within several hours while using large industrial fans to quickly blow the smoke over the barley. Only 20% of the barley used is malted on-site, and much of the distillate is aged on the mainland instead of Islay."
https://malt-review.com/2021/09/04/new-laphroaigs-and-laphroaigs-you-knew/
Whisky Nerds look to Springbank because they malt and peat their barley on site in traditional fashion. Lower ppms than Islay.
30-48hours of kilning:
https://www.springbank.scot/about/process/
"Generally speaking the production methods across the industry have seen significant alterations over the years and Laphroaig is no exception. Where once the barley was gently peated for many days by burning the peat at low temperatures (the key was that you wanted the peat to smoke and smoulder, but not have an open or detectable flame), the past fermentation times and yeast strains used may have resulted in sweeter flavours, the barley was malted on-site at the distillery’s own malting floors, and the stock was aged in warehouses located on-site.
Nowadays, the peating process is done at high temperatures within several hours while using large industrial fans to quickly blow the smoke over the barley. Only 20% of the barley used is malted on-site, and much of the distillate is aged on the mainland instead of Islay."
https://malt-review.com/2021/09/04/new-laphroaigs-and-laphroaigs-you-knew/
Whisky Nerds look to Springbank because they malt and peat their barley on site in traditional fashion. Lower ppms than Islay.
30-48hours of kilning:
https://www.springbank.scot/about/process/
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Decades ago I worked not far from the Talisker distillery, alongside the descendants of its founders. I’m not sure there was even a visitor centre in those days. The locals were quite bemused that anyone would want to come all the way to Skye to look round, what was for them, just a (albeit picturesque) factory. How times change.
Interesting. Clearly commercial decisions drive the market in whisky as much as anywhere else. I'm just intrigued as to what extent in a product that makes a big deal of heritage, tradition, provenance, etc the degree to which shifting market demands and perceptions change the manufactured product. I'm coming round to an answer of "a lot" and the conclusion that the Laphroaig I was drinking 25 off years ago was a very different product to that I can buy today.
Elephantears
Trunkated Aesthete
Not wanting to intrude on the interesting discussion on process and production, but I just had a sip of Ledaig soon after finishing the last drop of Talisker 10. They've a lot in common, but the peppery note in the Ledaig is purer, I think due to there being less caramel. Ledaig has really grown on me - I found it a bit simplistic when I first tasted it, but then simple can often be good.
Interesting. What are poms? PPM phenol?
Weekender
pfm Member
Most would agree with that.
Another new distillery (50/50 mix of peated/unpeated) I'd recommend would be Ardnamurchan. Their stock release is about £45 so not cheap; but not outrageous.
Yeah..darn autocorrect.
