When the equipment doesn’t meet expectations…

[Arkless Electronics]

Jez, just so you know, your “oh dear…” and following opinion are completely condescending and patronising. We all have ears and are entitled to reply to the opening question with our own experiences.
As per thread title, all the class A amps that I have tried didn’t meet my expectations. I admired their tonality and sound staging but their lack of cohesion and “snap” spoiled the music for me. It all sounded a bit too separated and lacking in joy.

Those who make silly statements may get "condescending and patronising" replies! I assure you there is no class A sound! Whatever you didn't like about the amps you've heard had diddly squat to do with them being class A.

I'm sure there are A/B amps you love and some you consider to have a "lack of cohesion and “snap”, but in those cases you'd say you didn't like "Acme" (whatever had the lack of cohesion and “snap”) amps, and not blame it on the amp being A/B.... 'cos you know an amp is class A you've grabbed the wrong end of the stick and run with it

TLDR: If all amps were class A there would still be ones considered "Pratty and dynamic" and ones considered "pipe and slippers"

 

[Del monaco]

The Rega Planar 2 was the first TT I owned.At the time it was the bees knees and I felt special to own it. On reflection, the sound was a little etched though I did enjoy my vinyl on it.

 

[tpetsch]

There could be something in that. If I’m not wrong he uses a single 250 for the tweeters & four 135s for the rest.

The sound fills the room but to my ears is harsh with it. He’s delighted with it though.

I’ve much preferred Saras.

I can’t stand the Klipsch Heresies another friend owns either. Hi-fi, my arse!

Yea, there are just so many things that can go wrong with an old DMS Aktiv system, old caps, tired amps that have drifted from each other, worn cartridge on the turntable, and in my experience the system was never designed for digital inputs, I strictly listen to LP's. Another thing, many think they know better and tweak the pots on their NAXO thinking they can tune the system to their room and liking but in 9 out of 10 cases this goes wrong. I remember trying once a dozen years ago to tune the bass and treble slightly and wound up sending my NAXO back to Christ West for a factory settings reset and it came back clearly sounding right and like music again, I also realized that some albums simply have bass and some not so much, it's not an issue of the system. ...In your friends system, the best place for a pair of 135's would be the tweeters, but throwing that 250 into this mix raises questions and maybe he has it right the way it is in this synario, hard to tell without swapping amps around? But I might try putting the 250 on the bass. I'm personally running 3-250's myself BTW.

 

[Iain Docherty]

Mmn… interesting question. From the 90s when I started this malarkey:

Manticore Mantra
Audiolab 8000A
Onix OA21
Pioneer A400
Arcam Delta 290
Linn LK1/LK280
Any Naim system above about 72/140
Most B&W speakers

More recently
KEF Blades
Rega RP10/Apheta 2 (sleep inducing)
Megabucks Vertere (I think) / countless amps / Avantgarde horns system I heard… preferred my Airpods on the way home

 

[Hazelberry]

Yea, there are just so many things that can go wrong with an old DMS Aktiv system, old caps, tired amps that have drifted from each other, worn cartridge on the turntable, and in my experience the system was never designed for digital inputs, I strictly listen to LP's. Another thing, many think they know better and tweak the pots on their NAXO thinking they can tune the system to their room and liking but in 9 out of 10 cases this goes wrong. I remember trying once a dozen years ago to tune the bass and treble slightly and wound up sending my NAXO back to Christ West for a factory settings reset and it came back clearly sounding right and like music again, I also realized that some albums simply have bass and some not so much, it's not an issue of the system. ...In your friends system, the best place for a pair of 135's would be the tweeters, but throwing that 250 into this mix raises questions and maybe he has it right the way it is in this synario, hard to tell without swapping amps around? But I might try putting the 250 on the bass. I'm personally running 3-250's myself BTW.

He uses an LP12. The amps have been overhauled; dunno about the SNAXO. You might have a point about swapping the 250 to the bass.

Anyway they aren’t mine to worry about. I liked them vastly more when they were passive, temporarily powered by an MF A1 at low volume.

 

[MikeMA]

Funny old game this hifi thang, can’t say I’m onboard with the Rega bossing a Gyro though

Indeed, I've never been overly impressed by Rega stuff, especially the agricultural looking tonearms.

 

[tpetsch]

Are vegan and raw meat your two favourite foods? One's an accurate monitor speaker used by many studios... the other is Brik's. Surely PMS if active?

True story. Once when I worked with Bob and Derek (Neat and Kudos now) they brought me coffee down to my workshop and I commented that whatever they were playing upstairs in the demo room sounded kinda dodgy even from down the stairs.... they both laughed and said "yeah bloody awful! It's a pair of briks we've just taken in part ex!"

A have heard Sara's sound good... FWIW

And at the shop I worked out it was always a treat when the Brik system was set up, best sounding thing in the store at that time and 26 years later I'm still enjoying the set I bought myself, never thought much about the Sara's though, they were OK though I guess. And BTW I'm also interested in listening to those Kudos 808's one day, but the nearest dealer to me is several hundred miles away, just might make that trip though to see what they are all about.

 

[Hazelberry]

Tastes & all…

 

[irb]

Linn Sondek.

Always just sounded a bit messy to me. The one I owned (I'm ashamed to say I caved in to the relentless '80s hype, despite what my ears told me), was less enjoyable than either the Systemdek III that preceded it, or the Michell Focus 1 'S' that followed it.

 

[Sloop John B]

Auralic Leo GX

Glad to see this here as I don’t really want to lust after any other Auralic gear. I’d more or less made up my mind from reviews which call it “the icing on the cake”. Call me old fashioned but I’m simply not willing to pay more than the cake for icing.

.sjb

 

[gordon]

LP12 w/Basic arm and cartridge. Ittok and Karma improved things immensely.
Naim SBLs. Even active they were meh. Liked the Aro and CDX2/XPS2.
Exposure CD. Loved their amps, but demoed the CD player for a few weeks, and just couldn’t get into it.
Linn Arkiv. What a step backwards from Troika.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

/\ Naim CD players prob their best products IMHO

 

[Thetiminator]

ATC 100’s - stick knitting needles in your ears, it’s cheaper.
Avantgarde speakers - I don’t like being shouted at.
All valve amplifiers - Amstrad with lovely voices.
Sugden (big monos) - Like a valve amp minus the good bit.
Audeze headphones - like turning your sub up to 11.
KEF Blade - form over function personified.
Bel Canto - just throw duvets over your speakers, and you have Bel Canto.
Cyrus.

 

[say it as it is]

Marantz CD6006 UK SE no matter how great the reviews were I found it dull and boring. Sold on quickly and been using much older players since.

Naim Intro - tried to like them really did but the most frustrating and fussy speakers I have ever tried. Not suited to my room or system it would seem strange given naim amp!

Rega Brio-r - the first of the half width, found it could not waken modest tannoy dc6t speakers. A used Rotel at a third of the price seen it off, before the slippery slope of nait 5i to nait XS.

Things that really were much better than I expected
Rotel RA 06SE great little amp really wish I had kept it punched way above its weight.

Naim Nam 402 speakers - looked rough and dated, old Goodman's 8in drivers and 1in tweeters in basic front ported box. Not the last word in bass but still to match the detail and mid range, brought Fleetwood Mac to life

 

[Space is the Place]

Musical Fidelity- "The Preamp" poor resolution, sounded as flat as a pancake.

AVi Monoblocks - i know what they mean by transistor sound now.

AVi ADM9's - what was i thinking, the dynamics and bass response of two clock radios, boxy sounding too.

Cambridge 851 Dac- the cheaper Dacmagic Plus sounded more natural (although no longer works!).

Audiolab MDAC- bit synthetic sounding.

Lakewest MDAC2- plug in board for the above to stop the above sounding synthetic, doesn't exist.

Marantz 6006 UK edition- It's the normal 6006 with a £100 badge, coma inducing dullness, works OK as transport though, still a bit flat compared the computer as a transport, it'll be my last CD player.

 

[ryder]

Naim 202/200 combo, even with added napsc and hi-cap, just could never tame the headache inducing brightness! Believed it was "detail" to start with until I realised otherwise!

May I ask what speakers were matched to the Naim NAC202 and NAP200 when you made that assessment. My experience was the opposite. I tried 6 or 7 amp combinations (integrateds and pre/power) within 1 year and the 202/200 did it for me. If it wasn't for the 202/200 I would have sold the Harbeth SHL5 which I was desperately trying to salvage.

I lived with the 202/200 and SHL5 for about 7 years before I upgraded to higher level Naim.

 

[ryder]

For me, it's the Musical Fidelity M1 DAC.

I think this is the only component that sounded underwhelming in my system. It was my first proper DAC when I had the intention of going into computer audio. Nevertheless, I found that I was not spending much time listening to ripped audio files with the DAC as I spent more time listening to good old CDs and LPs on the CD player and turntable. Up to a point, I completely abandoned the format and stopped listening.

Fortunately, the Chord QBD 76 came to the rescue and changed everything.

 

[ryder]

A Marantz 63 KI for example.

I owned the Marantz CD63 KI Signature in black. Bought it new together with an Arcam Alpha 10 and B&W CDM 1SE as a bundle back in 1997. I didn't recall it sounding bright and hard. Perhaps the Arcam amp toned down the brightness with its warm and lush sound.

 

[RJohan]

Sony Discman, the original mid 80's one. Sounded really shite and put me off CD for nearly a decade. Even more sad as the few early CD's I bought is the best sounding ones today.

 

[Del monaco]

I owned the Marantz CD63 KI Signature in black. Bought it new together with an Arcam Alpha 10 and B&W CDM 1SE as a bundle back in 1997. I didn't recall it sounding bright and hard. Perhaps the Arcam amp toned down the brightness with its warm and lush sound.

I think that is perhaps likely. In my own set up it was forward sounding due to the high levels of detail in the mids. Exciting perhaps, but I found it lacked refinement. Having said that I ran a Naim set up at the time and it probably had a big influence.