advertisement


When is a spring not a spring ? When it’s a polymer Insole

John said:
You will need the spacers. The In-Sole is no larger than the top grommet that supports the spring.
Click to expand...
So I did, but DIYed the spacer solution with 10mm and 12mm ally tube, each with 1mm thick walls. The 12mm tube was supplemented with a 10mm washer to spread the load for each in-sole and the 10mm lined up with the hole in the insole and white knurled nut.

Just listening now to see if I can discern any significant changes, good or bad.
 
James said:
So I did, but DIYed the spacer solution with 10mm and 12mm ally tube, each with 1mm thick walls. The 12mm tube was supplemented with a 10mm washer to spread the load for each in-sole and the 10mm lined up with the hole in the insole and white knurled nut.

Just listening now to see if I can discern any significant changes, good or bad.
Click to expand...

When I surmised that the In-Sole was not going to work on the pin-hole top plate bolts on the Khan I started looking for a solution. I came upon an interesting person, Lennart Svensson,who posts on the Linn Sondek LP12 group on Facebook. He’s a Linn dealer who embraces a variety of third party LP12 products. He has a nice website LinnArts where you can see and purchase items. He also posts a lot of his builds on the Facebook group which is where I grabbed one of the pictures I posted on this thread.

Look forward to see how you get on. I had a great listening session yesterday and can’t get over how the music has improved without the springs! The value of my record collection has just gone up significantly as a result.
 
Not often one sees a modern Linn with a SME cut-out! Shame one has to hack-out the plinth brace, though IIRC one has to do that for Rega too. I only ever had Linn-fit arms on my LP12. Those braces are bigger than I remember, though it is 20+ years since I’ve disembowelled an LP12.
 
Tony L said:
Not often one sees a modern Linn with a SME cut-out! Shame one has to hack-out the plinth brace, though IIRC one has to do that for Rega too. I only ever had Linn-fit arms on my LP12. Those braces are bigger than I remember, though it is 20+ years since I’ve disembowelled an LP12.
Click to expand...
Yep, the hack was for fitting a RB250 many years ago, when I was kinda "out of love" with my LP12.

The SME for is for a mission 774, it doesn't need the brace to be hacked to fit. There must be a knack to fitting the Mission arm, because it causes me no end of muttering and swearing. Though once it's on and working it is a delight to listen to.
 
John said:
The AI Sole must have been the latest version. I like how it’s made. Wonder how it does with a Karousel.
Click to expand...
I bought it at the end of February this year from John. It is a great piece of craftsmanship, worth every penny. Shame that it is last of the line :(

As for the Karousel, that might happen next year as the sub-chassis, PSU and InSoles have certainly got me back into playing LPs and buying records.
 
James said:
So I did, but DIYed the spacer solution with 10mm and 12mm ally tube, each with 1mm thick walls. The 12mm tube was supplemented with a 10mm washer to spread the load for each in-sole and the 10mm lined up with the hole in the insole and white knurled nut.

Just listening now to see if I can discern any significant changes, good or bad.
Click to expand...
How did that work out for you?
 
I've spun only four or five records since installing the insoles. But first impressions are:
  • The arm board part of my Greenstreet sub is square again.
  • My ARO is far less wobbly. I feel almost confident to cue by hand again.
  • Upper bass seems more pronounced, and lower bass seems lighter. But that could be the records I was playing. Need to play more records.
  • Pitch stability is noticeably more solid. There is no loss of grooviness.
 
No doubt to me that the elimination of the springs in lieu of In-Soles are a positive move based on all the listening I’ve been able to do the last couple weeks.

My LP12 has been sitting on a stack of Mana for some 23 years. The rack sits very stable on a poured concrete floor. Something I just tried now that I have the In-Soles installed was to knock on the upward support of my mini table which supports the LP12. Doing this when it had the springs would set the suspension in motion and if hard enough cause the record to skip. I did this a few times over the years by accident.

Knocking on the side of the stand now with the In-Soles in place causes no such problem nor does it affect the performance of the record driving the stylus. I can’t help but think that whatever the forces that cause the springs to move degrades the performance of the deck in a big way. Stylus drag being one.

9qxqnud.jpeg
 
Last edited:
I received my In-Soles last Monday. I have listened to a ton of vinyl over the last 5 days, and I have to say that I am very impressed with the sound of my LP12 with the In-Soles. I have to agree with others who have said that the Linn springs were a handicap of sorts. Listening to very familiar vinyl, the first thing that I noticed, was a dramatic drop in background noise. This allows a person to hear more into the recording, with details coming forward that have never been heard before. This leads to increased nuance in vocals, and a significant reduction in sibilance on certain tracks where this has been an issue. Bass is tighter, and music has more drive. I almost hate to try and describe all the improvements that I am hearing, except to say that there have literally been improvements across the board, with no downside or compromises that I can perceive.
When I ordered these from John R, I was anticipating that there would be some kind of compromises, and that I would have to see if they were acceptable or not. This has not happened at all. I have never heard my LP12 sound this good before, even after a professional set-up.
My Lp12 is not a very high spec compared to many on this forum and in the green place. I have a cirkus bearing, Lingo2, Ittok, Mp-500 setup on an Archidee stand. I have a theory as to what has been accomplished in my situation. I believe that vibrations in the cirkus subchassis are being damped by the In-Soles; something that the Linn springs were incapable of doing. The net effect is akin to a getting a better bearing and/or subchassis. All for 36GBP! Deal of the century.

I was very saddened to hear of John's passing. I would have really liked to thank him personally for this product. I can only hope that he is resting in a peaceful state, in a better place...
 
Found this interesting bit regarding springs and what likely happens with the LP12:

Every turntable design scheme has pluses and minuses. Proponents of either suspended or non-suspended turntables talk up their positives and omit their negatives. It's like dating (I remember). The suspended design's main negative is that even if the suspended part containing the arm and platter is rigidly coupled together and the motor is fully isolated on its own platform, any lateral platform movement will vary the distance from the motor to the platter, which inevitably affects belt tension and thus speed stability. Suspension tuning is critical to minimize this problem.

Eccentrically pressed records causes the arm to sway even minutely back and forth, which can induce softly sprung suspensions that are effective at isolation, to produce "porch rocker" effect, which can vary platter to motor distances and thus negatively effect speed consistency. Non-suspended turntable advocates point to that as the reason suspended turntables can sound "soft". Suspended turntable advocates point to the outstanding isolation and quiet and around and around it goes!

Here’s the source of the quote: https://trackingangle.com/equipment/michell-gyro-se-turntable-a-classic-revisited

To add some thoughts to that quote, I think there is an ideal motor to platter distance that varies depending on how well the suspension is setup on the LP12. Assuming you start with the deck in a perfectly level jig with the bolts supporting the springs also perfectly level. This despite the non-flat stock top plate which requires the Linn bolt leveling tool to make the required bend to the top plate get that correct.

Once you have that starting point you have to manipulate the springs so that are perfectly centered around that supporting bolt. All three springs need to be spot on in order for this to be correct. This all needs to be done with the arm cable unplugged from the tonearm to eliminate the variable the cable presents.

The problem I see is the lack of feedback to whether or not you have achieved perfection. Having a one piece subchassis like a Keel where the armboard is precisely in the exact position relative to the platter helps immensely. If the armboard ends up perfectly proportional around the plinth and top plate you’re likely there.

It took me a lot of luck and effort to get the suspension perfectly setup in that manor and it does sound noticeably better as a result. It still doesn’t eliminate the fact that this ultra sensitive sprung suspension magnifies the source any lateral movement presented to it.

The In-Soles minimize that issue and gets the platter to motor distance spot on with no fiddling of the springs. Upon replacing the springs with In-Soles the armboard sits in the exact same spot perfectly proportional to when the sprung suspension was perfectly setup.
 
Last edited:
There is a lot praise here for these insoles. Sounds like its worth a punt.
How do i go about ordering a set for an LP12?
 
Jazzer said:
There is a lot praise here for these insoles. Sounds like its worth a punt.
How do i go about ordering a set for an LP12?
Click to expand...
The owner of the company, has recently passed but I think a dealer LinnArts, may still have some.
 
Anyone know where to get a set of Insoles?
LinnArts also searches for them (on my behalf, too).
 
Zombie said:
Anyone know where to get a set of Insoles?
LinnArts also searches for them (on my behalf, too).
Click to expand...
I know the In-Soles were specifically made for the LP12 but I think LinnArts finds the mushrooms to work as well with the LP12. Something to think about if the In-Soles are no more.
 
I have now spent more time listening to my in-soled LP12. Since fitting the in-soles, I have not heard any wavering of pitch from my records, so that's a huge plus for me. My original concern about the loss of bass gravitas was unfounded. It's all there. The effect I heard was better incisiveness of mid and upper bass, which gave me the impression of more upper bass. But after listening more familiar records and comparing the tonal balance with the same record on digital media, I'm confident that tonality is right.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top