What has happened to (small) speaker prices

[Tony L]

https://www.radios-tv.co.uk/1972-ferguson-3713/

I will leave you with your well made TV and stick with my crap 55” nano tech LCD that doesn’t make you think you are drunk whilst watching a programme, it also a costs a lot less in real terms than its 1970s counterpart.

True, technology has moved on a long way, but there is no longer any right to repair so our fancy LCD TVs end up broken in landfill, bits of broken plastic inside sea turtles etc after just a few years. I’d very happily pay the equivalent of 1970s TV prices for something that looked as good as what we have now, but wasn’t made out of shite components in a communist dictatorship. I want something serviceable and ideally upgradable.

As an example I still have a 21” 4/3 Sony Trinitron CRT from the late ‘90s. It still works and I use it for retro 8 bit computers (I have a ZX Spectrum, BBC Micro, Electron etc). I am on the third LCD set, they just fail (even Sonys), yet the Trinitron CRT is still fine, and it is all easy through-hole technology so I could recap it if need be. I like it as vintage computer games definitely look way better on a CRT than upscaled to a 4k LCD, so I’ll keep it running. The modern TVs may be cheaper, but they tend to last a third as long, if that, so are they? Especially if you factor the environmental costs.

PS Here’s a 6 part video of someone rebuilding a lovely 1970s Sony CRT he found on the roadside. Sure, its not an economic repair as it is hours of work recapping and resoldering everything on such a complex set, but I love that it is possible and a nice piece of history can be preserved rather than end up polluting the planet.

 

[Robert]

I guess the generally high prices are governed by shrinking demand for high end audiophile 'stereo' kit.
High end 2 channel is now very, very niche in a way it just wasn't in decades past.
Manufacturers need to pay staff, pay bills and eat.
It's interesting that we don't see this level of price inflation for products designed for use in AV multi channel situations but with 2-channel market crossover, presumably because demand is far higher.

Then again I was speaking with a friend recently who manufactures 'speakers and super tweeters. Talking with his Japanese contact who'd just placed a bulk order, the chap in quested suggested substantially increasing the cost of the tweeters to increase sales from wealthy audiophiles...... so there is that.

 

[matt j]

Has the quality stuff not always been expensive? There's tons of cheap entry/mid level speakers on the market probably better than budget hi-fi of yesteryear.

Hand made quality kit from the UK/US/Japan is always going to cost a pretty penny regardless of era.

 

[davidsrsb]

One reason for price hikes is because decent Chinese labour (the level that IAG use) is not cheap these days. I see lots of low cost production shifting to Vietnam and Laos.

No Hi-Fi product has ever been as internally complex and expensive to make as something like a VCR was in its day. A VCR drum was a higher precision manufacturing item than any turntable

 

[RJohan]

That is unquestionably a factor, but we also have to factor-in a market absolutely saturated by stuff heavily subsidised and made with improbably low-wage labour in the Chinese dictatorship and elsewhere. As such there is a huge jump in the market from stuff like IAG, Kef, Q Acoustics etc, which are all good products and sell in high quantities, and the now boutique UK, EU and US manufactures. This flooding of an already contracting market diminishes the sales prospects for the remaining companies still that use properly paid craftsmanship and traditional skills, and therefore pushes their prices ever upwards. The second hand market is also obviously a factor as audio is a mature technology aside from digital so given it is contracting there is a decent supply of very high quality used equipment, though this is increasing in value too of late.

How is it with Rega today? They have always prided themselves with actually making the stuff themselves in the UK. A P1 isn't excactly expensive.

 

[ryder]

Harbeth’ s share capital has gone from £1.7m to £4.3m in five years. That could be because they are selling a lot more stuff (Alan Shaw has said sales are up 30% since they launched their anniversary series and carried it through to their XD series) so at least an appreciable fraction of that increase is due to increasing sales.
Alan Shaw has been making an annual income of about £120,000 a year from Harbeth (salary of £70k & dividends of between £40k and £50k) though he also owns 100% of the share capital valued at £4.3m. it doesn’t look at all like he’s milking the buisiness. That kind of salary is enjoyed by a lot of far less propductive people.
The only fools on this thread are the ones too ignorant to understand how hard it is to be a small manufacturing business anywhere in the world let alone the UK.

Good post and I tend to agree especially with the text in bold. One can think a product is overpriced and not worth the money, for instance Harbeth loudspeakers but ultimately there will be demand, elsewhere if not particularly popular in the UK. I've not gone to the Harbeth User Forum for a long time but when I was there, the order book for Harbeth is said to be full for the next couple of years. They are doing very well with the sales outside of UK, presumably the Far East or other parts of Europe. That may be the reason why they can afford to raise prices to their current level as people are still buying them despite the high prices.

If one feels that the loudspeakers are not worth the money, they can always choose something else. As few posters have mentioned, demand drives the sales/prices. A product that is viewed as poor value by someone does not necessarily mean they are overpriced by others.

 

[Mr Pig]

As an example I still have a 21” 4/3 Sony Trinitron CRT from the late ‘90s.

We had two and binned the 14'' Trinitron in the kitchen just last month. It packed in and my wife wanted to take the opportunity to get a smart TV.

I wonder how many perfectly good CRT televisions went in the bin when flat screen came out.

 

[Tony L]

How is it with Rega today? They have always prided themselves with actually making the stuff themselves in the UK. A P1 isn't excactly expensive.

To my knowledge Rega are fully UK made. A P1 is an exceptionally simple thing made from inexpensive materials and has a very large customer base given it pretty much owns the entry level of proper audio. I can understand how they are able to churn them out affordably given this low material cost, simplicity of assembly and economy of scale.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Are upmarket TVs like Loewe or B&O any better in terms of build quality and repairability, or is it much of a muchness under the skin?

 

[PerF]

Believe it or not, I've been told Project entry level turntables sell ww in more numbers than Rega P1/P2.

 

[Del monaco]

Believe it or not, I've been told Project entry level turntables sell ww in more numbers than Rega P1/P2.

Different markets perhaps.

 

[Mr Pig]

Believe it or not, I've been told Project entry level turntables sell ww in more numbers than Rega P1/P2.

I'm sure that's true but it has nothing to do with quality. ProJect just build more and sell them in more places. Big factory in Czechoslovakia and sell everywhere. You can buy ProJect turntables on line, in Richer Sounds, everywhere.

McDonalds outsells your local hand-made burger joint but it doesn't mean their burgers are better?

 

[S-Man]

You use a lot of nice words..by the time I have looked them up? I had forgotten the amusing response i was going to use...look , could you use simple words? please..as I feel excluded by my ignorance.and nowadays if someone wants to be known as they or it! That's quite ok..then surely my pig ignorance should be celebrated? Lol

Mmm? Young cyrus, a fine fellow and never one to follow the crowd..young cyrus knew his own mind and cared not a jot for pleasing the stupid public..young cyrus found a great truth and his acolytes knew too..then cheek by jowl the word got about , and sophisticated listeners found benison in young cyrus's truth as the proof of the pudding is in the hearing..and once cyrus was heard, we all marveled..life seemed good back in those halcyon days..

Mordacious!

 

[Del monaco]

Young people who are just getting into vinyl and don’t really know other brands will likely buy Project. It’s accessible and a step above the Crossley. And they don’t want to pay much more.I think these youngsters are the majority behind the vinyl revival. They therefore sell like hot cakes. And they sound well. The minority who have history and interest will buy Rega.

 

[Joe Hutch]

With regard to computer prices, in the course of a clear-out, we found some old newspapers. One, from 2005, has an advert for Curry's. An entry-level desktop PC by Compaq cost £400 (equivalent to about £800 today), whilst a top-level computer by Advent cost £800. Looking at Curry's site just now, their desktop PCs start at just over £400, but go on up to just over £4,000. (Obviously, today's PCs are much more powerful and sophisticated than they were in 2005).

 

[the caretaker]

Mordacious!

Ah, biting the hand that threads and once bitted! Those gnashers move on to the next outstretched hand..lol

 

[the caretaker]

Young people who are just getting into vinyl and don’t really know other brands will likely buy Project. It’s accessible and a step above the Crossley. And they don’t want to pay much more.I think these youngsters are the majority behind the vinyl revival. They therefore sell like hot cakes. And they sound well. The minority who have history and interest will buy Rega.

My late mothers Sony turntable ( the one with the gap in the lid to play lps with said lid closed! Lol ) when rigged up to a decent phono amp is quite good..what surprised me was how quiet the vinyl was played thru the Sony...

 

[the caretaker]

I'm sure that's true but it has nothing to do with quality. ProJect just build more and sell them in more places. Big factory in Czechoslovakia and sell everywhere. You can buy ProJect turntables on line, in Richer Sounds, everywhere.

McDonalds outsells your local hand-made burger joint but it doesn't mean their burgers are better?

From crossley to project to linn...the curve is learning but linn always knew better..

 

[ossy]

Young people who are just getting into vinyl and don’t really know other brands will likely buy Project. It’s accessible and a step above the Crossley. And they don’t want to pay much more.I think these youngsters are the majority behind the vinyl revival. They therefore sell like hot cakes. And they sound well. The minority who have history and interest will buy Rega.

I recently had a project essential 2 to use as a bridge to getting back into vinyl (used to have a townshend rock I never should have sold!). It sounded much better than it looked like it should have.

I get that manufacturers have to make a profit, if Harbeth can sell lots of p3esr’s at those prices then more power to them. What I struggle with is speakers that seemed expensive (but possibly worth it) a few years ago are now astronomical (or at least to me).

 

[Minio]

Just doing some calculations.
The Harbeth 3/5a speaker has increased 7 times in price over 30 years.
My local authority rates have increased 10 times. House prices 5 or 6 times. Petrol 3 or 4 times, but I don't buy much of it, and cars are more economical now.
So there you have it. Just ask yourself, can you get what you want for less?