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What are the world's best speakers to bring the philharmonic into your living room?

My local dealer came to our house recently to collect a couple of trade-in items, and I played my system with its Duevel Planets to him. Just for twenty minutes, because he had not heard omnidirectional speakers before. He seemed rather taken aback...

I passed the shop a couple of weeks later, and there in the window were... Duevel Planets :cool:

I remember my father back in the 1970s owned a pair of JBL Aquarius speakers in gloss white. They filled the room with sound and were quite impressive for the time but fell short in a lot of other areas of sound. They looked very cool though...
 
I’ve seen many clients in the last few months who are removing B&W 800s series speakers in favour of much smaller sub/sat and in wall combinations and getting far better sound.

While the 800’s are fab speakers they simply don’t sound good in 90% of the rooms I see them in. You can’t put a full range speaker in a regular UK sized room and expect good sound, the bass and mid bass will be hugely exaggerated at some frequencies and will almost disappear at other.

Listen to a piano recording on this type of system and it will be awful.

The question people should be asking is not “what is the best speaker” but what will give the best results in my room. Small speaker with subs may not look as sexy but they will give better results and deliver full range sound at a fraction of the price of full range speakers.

I agree that a pair of 3-way mains plus a pair of subs (or 6) is better suited for the typical 12 to 16 m2 UK sitting room. Particularly if the room is not treated and/or the listener chooses not to use DSP EQ.

On top of that large B&Ws (or any of their speakers for that matter) have poor off-axis behaviour which results in a coloured tonal balance at the listening spot in untreated or reflective rooms, and they have a distinct house sound: recessed presence and elevated upper-treble.


My guess is that Classical music engineers like them because of the low distortion and clean sound of the hard-coned midrange and because the BBC-dip pushes the stage further back and away from the listener.
 
Interesting that your experience is so different. What sort of music do you listen to and what sort of concert hall? Which omnis have you listened to and how have they been set up?

My main problem with Omni's and MBLs is that instruments and voices come at you from the wrong place. Yes, they give a big impressive sound but image placement is not where it should be and that ruins the experience for me. I heard the top MBL system, so their top speakers, their top amplifiers, CD player etc at the Heathrow Show a few years back, plus at the Munich Shows over quite a few years. The above observation is not new, its been well documented over the years, but some like the big open sound and that is great.
 
Yay! Omni love-in!! :)

(little ones are adorable too)
:D

I’d love to have a listen to the Duevels; bit difficult at the moment. I used to think I knew what omnis sounded like based on how people described their sound and thinking about the logic of how they work. Then I bought a pair and discovered so many of the generalisations and preconceptions, including mine, were completely incorrect. It would be interesting to know how many people who have definite views on how they sound have actually heard them set up well in a domestic setting, and which particular omnis they are talking about.
 
Interesting that your experience is so different. What sort of music do you listen to and what sort of concert hall? Which omnis have you listened to and how have they been set up?

I think that this is really an area where personal preference takes over. And it's great that we have manufacturers catering for all tastes.

I prefer narrow dispersion and/or treated early reflections because that way I can listen into the recorded spatial cues of original venue without my room overlaying its own acoustic footprint and also affecting image focus.
But I agree that omnis produce a more immersive experience.

Whathever floats your boat.


2-channel stereo over speakers is fundamentally flawed in its inability to recreate the original soundfield: both direct (instrument or vocal) and reflected (room cues, audience noise and handclapping) sound are created/reproduced and reach the listener coming from the same sources located in front of the listening spot.
Stereo creates the illusion of left to right and azimuth/depth location of the phantom sources but venue cues that should be coming from the sides and even from behind the listening spot are also generated in front of us. (I am referring to live unamplified acoustic music performed in a space with natural acoustic characteristics)

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On top of that the listening room is creating its own reflections and the overlaying of original cues and our room's acoustic footprint makes the recreation of the original venue ambience confusing.
A livelier room will produce more envelopment or immersiveness (and help the speakers disapear as source) but it will also have a negative impact on the audibility of the recorded cues and thus lower fidelity.
But, as with other aspects of sound reproduction, whether one chooses a deader listening environment and/or narrow dispersion speakers or a livelier room and/or wide directivity transducers is a matter of preference.
 
My main problem with Omni's and MBLs is that instruments and voices come at you from the wrong place. Yes, they give a big impressive sound but image placement is not where it should be and that ruins the experience for me. I heard the top MBL system, so their top speakers, their top amplifiers, CD player etc at the Heathrow Show a few years back, plus at the Munich Shows over quite a few years. The above observation is not new, its been well documented over the years, but some like the big open sound and that is great.
Thanks Graham. I’m not sure that shows are the best place to form a judgement of any speaker. For me they come into the category of shouldn’t work and yet they do, very well. When I say very well, that is at producing a convincingly realistic illusion of a someone playing an instrument in front of me. If I close my eyes It is very difficult to believe that an actual singer, or string quartet isn’t performing in front of me, to an extent that I haven’t been able to replicate with any other speaker I’ve had. I haven’t heard the top of the range behemoth that you refer to, only the 126 and 116F models.

When it comes to sound coming from the “wrong place” I suppose it depends on how well positioned they are in the room. The secondary sound reflected from the room is at a lower volume and delayed to the direct sound from the small, at least down to 600 Hz, drivers. The big disadvantage to my mind is that they need to be positioned way out into the room to work well, which is clearly not practical for a lot of people.

I also suspect that people perceive sound in different ways and that means there isn’t one correct and only route to realistic sound reproduction.
 
Ric, you really must come and have a listen some time when Covid is over; you’ll be most welcome. Yes it does come down to preference and I suppose many of us are in a good position to speak about various conventional speakers from practical experience as well as theory. My question remains, how many people have heard MBLs or German Physiks set up well in a domestic environment?
 
And this may well be why I find my little Spendors (SP1) so satisfying even though my ESLs are probably better and certainly have better equipment in the chain. There is a very involving sense of ambience, of space. Of all the speakers I have, the Spendors are the speakers I enjoy the most, and listen too the most.

What size room are you using the SP1's in? I have a fancy to try Spendor SP100R2's or maybe the Classic100 if I wait long enough! My 63's are sounding sublime in my 4.5 x5m room. Ceiling is 10ft odd high. Bass is really deep and tuneful. I think it is a combination of the room, amp and high quality dac/pc audio. Room is well damped also. Would SP1's work in a room that size?
 
Ric, you really must come and have a listen some time when Covid is over; you’ll be most welcome. Yes it does come down to preference and I suppose many of us are in a good position to speak about various conventional speakers from practical experience as well as theory. My question remains, how many people have heard MBLs or German Physiks set up well in a domestic environment?

Thanks, I'd love to. It would be a very educational experience.
I've never listened to MBLs, only Beolabs and Shahinians.
 
I'm happy with my Tannoys and they do a respectable job of recreating an orchestra, but if I had buckets of money to spare I'd want to try the ginormous MBLs if for no other reason than they look like something out of a sci-fi TV show. Star something I think it's called.

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I can't say I recognize the song the Genesis Device is playing, but if it has 5.48 megatonnes of bass it's likely something by Trentmøller.

Joe
Which Tannoys Joe? Kirks or Spocks?
 
What size room are you using the SP1's in? I have a fancy to try Spendor SP100R2's or maybe the Classic100 if I wait long enough! My 63's are sounding sublime in my 4.5 x5m room. Ceiling is 10ft odd high. Bass is really deep and tuneful. I think it is a combination of the room, amp and high quality dac/pc audio. Room is well damped also. Would SP1's work in a room that size?

I had the SP9/1s (floorstanding version of the S100) in a 3.3 x 8.4 m room (3.3 m high) and they worked really well.
I wish I hadn't been forced to sell them because of a move abroad.

An S100/SP100x should work even better in your room because of the extra room width and the standmount's overdamped tuning of the port.
The SP9/1 will give a bit more extension in the bass but the response is slightly contoured in the presence region and top end.
 
What size room are you using the SP1's in? I have a fancy to try Spendor SP100R2's or maybe the Classic100 if I wait long enough! My 63's are sounding sublime in my 4.5 x5m room. Ceiling is 10ft odd high. Bass is really deep and tuneful. I think it is a combination of the room, amp and high quality dac/pc audio. Room is well damped also. Would SP1's work in a room that size?

18'x16'x9' so I think you may be pleased with SP1s, at least if we have similar taste. This is a question of taste I guess.
 
My main problem with Omni's and MBLs is that instruments and voices come at you from the wrong place. Yes, they give a big impressive sound but image placement is not where it should be and that ruins the experience for me...
Almost all the music I hear live in concert is classical; until March I was attending concerts of different scale (chamber, orchestral, choral) in various halls very regularly. My experience has invariably been that "image placement" is much less precise in the concert hall than is heard in recordings of the same music played through conventional straight-at-you speakers. For my ears and taste in music, only omnidirectional speakers give a sound picture like that heard live; and its reproduction at home can be uncannily real, as I know from attending a concert and then listening to the Radio 3 relay of it the following evening.
 
Almost all the music I hear live in concert is classical; until March I was attending concerts of different scale (chamber, orchestral, choral) in various halls. My experience has invariably been that "image placement" is much less precise in the concert hall than is heard in recordings of the same music played through conventional straight-at-you speakers. For my ears and taste in music, only omnidirectional speakers give a sound picture like that heard live; and its reproduction at home can be uncannily real, as I know from attending a concert and then listening to the Radio 3 relay of it the following evening.

I agree that the concept of "image placement" in live music is a bit of a non-issue because for one you can actually see the instruments and vocalists but also because it is very much dependent on where you are sitting (direct vs. reflected sound ratio).

In my view the downside is not so much phantom-image "placement" but its "sharpness". And even though "crisp", "stable" phantom-images might not seem important I suspect that the impact of loss in "sharpness" can be compared to increased crosstalk or channel bleeding in that it ends up reducing "clarity", particularly in complex passages of orchestral music and polyphonic choir.
In a way, "clarity" and "reverberance" are inversely proportional. It is more difficult to locate a sound source in a very reflective and/or echo-ey space and the sound is also less intelligible. Just as a boomy room can mask low-frequency detail.

This series of videos about acoustics by Geoff Martin (Bang & Olufsen) is mandatory:

 
I had the SP9/1s (floorstanding version of the S100) in a 3.3 x 8.4 m room (3.3 m high) and they worked really well.
I wish I hadn't been forced to sell them because of a move abroad.

An S100/SP100x should work even better in your room because of the extra room width and the standmount's overdamped tuning of the port.
The SP9/1 will give a bit more extension in the bass but the response is slightly contoured in the presence region and top end.

Thanks Tuga, I feel the Spendors although they often get reviews advising they have rolled off treble would be the right fit for what I think I like! I follow the same path as many here always in the market for the next hit! Think I am settled on either getting larger ESL's, Spendor 3 ways probably newer to ensure the drivers are in good nick or maybe Tannoy Legacy Cheviots. Ideally I would be heading to Munich next year to enjoy listening to as many speakers as possible but don't see that happening. But no rush and if nothing turns up the 63's with the Spendor A6's in my second system are very satisfactory.
 
Thanks Tuga, I feel the Spendors although they often get reviews advising they have rolled off treble would be the right fit for what I think I like! I follow the same path as many here always in the market for the next hit! Think I am settled on either getting larger ESL's, Spendor 3 ways probably newer to ensure the drivers are in good nick or maybe Tannoy Legacy Cheviots. Ideally I would be heading to Munich next year to enjoy listening to as many speakers as possible but don't see that happening. But no rush and if nothing turns up the 63's with the Spendor A6's in my second system are very satisfactory.

Harbeth's M40 and Graham Audio's LS5/8 are worthy candidates too but more expensive if I'm not mistaken.
 
Thanks Tuga, I feel the Spendors although they often get reviews advising they have rolled off treble would be the right fit for what I think I like! I follow the same path as many here always in the market for the next hit! Think I am settled on either getting larger ESL's, Spendor 3 ways probably newer to ensure the drivers are in good nick or maybe Tannoy Legacy Cheviots. Ideally I would be heading to Munich next year to enjoy listening to as many speakers as possible but don't see that happening. But no rush and if nothing turns up the 63's with the Spendor A6's in my second system are very satisfactory.

What about larger Quads, f.e. 2905?
 
What about larger Quads, f.e. 2905?

I would check out the reliability first! A couple of my customers have had the new Quads and got rid due to the constant unreliability issues and return trips back to Quad.
 
Harbeth's M40 and Graham Audio's LS5/8 are worthy candidates too but more expensive if I'm not mistaken.

Yes the Grahams are a contender. On the Quads I am/have considered larger ones but would only buy a just done pair from OTA or Quad probably 989's. As @G T Audio
advises the reliability appears to be a problem with the larger ones. A few guys have them here and they seem to work fine for them but the ideal of paying £2.5-3k for a pair with unknown life left on the panels is a non-runner for me. I think done 63's maybe Pro upgrade from OTA are best bang for buck if buying 'new'

As has been discussed on other threads how Quad have not come up with a user replacement panel design is bonkers. All other perishable parts should also be designed at this point to be slot in replacement.
 


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