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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

Yes, speak for yourself. My point was just that you don't seem to speak for the majority of Israelis now. And you make the continuing mistake of demanding we credit them with your reasonable motives and scruples, while shrugging off all evidence to the contrary.
I cannot speak for any Israelis, let alone for a majority of them. I am not Israeli, but have spent a total of maybe three/four years there over a period of fifteen years and know many people there. I am not demanding that anybody credits anything, but merely observe, read a lot and comment, much as I image you do.
In most countries "Right" and "Left" is mainly about economics, but in Israel it is also very much about how to manage relations with the Palestinians and the neighbouring Arab countries.
The electoral system, as I'm sure you know, is perfectly proportional, which means any government has to be supported by a coalition. In the latest elections produced today's disastrous government. Which is perceived as disastrous by many people who once voted for Likkud and may even have voted in the past for a Bibi-led Likkud. What I'm told is that today's Likkud is not the "intelligent" and "reasonable" conservative party of the past, but has become a gang of Netanyahu yes-men. (A bit like the Tories?)
Even so, if Likkud had formed a coalition with Ganz, Lapid and what is left of the Labour Party, the character of the government would have been entirely different and entirely better (IMO). This did not happen because the centre+left had for years accused Bibi of corruption and mismangement and vowed to bring him to justice. So they rejected any idea of forming a coalition with him.
The result is today's coalition of the "new" Likkud with the nationalist settler-supporting parties and the extremist religious groups.

The obvious question is, why did they get elected?

One reason: The original democratic and socialist principles on which the initial concept of Israel was based, a tradition rooted in the European Left since the late 19th century, was embodied by several generations who came from Europe, or whose parents or grandparents came from Europe, with the idea of progressive democracy as absolutely essential. But more recent immigration has come from Arab/Muslim countries, and also from Russia, countries where democracy is/was completely unknown. These people, the so-called "eastern" Israelis, plus the ex-Russians, account for more than half the population. They tend to vote to the Right more than the Europeans, to be attracted by Bibi's thinly veiled "strong man" stance..

Another reason: Over the past 77 years Israelis have had to defend themselves in at least 3 wars that aimed at the destruction of Israel. Plus periods of "attrition" of guerilla attacks, plus a long history of terrorist attacks against civilians in the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv; bombs on buses, shootings at restaurants and bars, bombs in discoteques.
So they are fed up. Many are convinced that there is no hope of ever being accepted as neighbours by the Arabs, whatever they do or do not do. So the only possibility is to be as strong as possible in order to be left in peace.
 
The logic of being forced to defend yourself in a war that you started needs just a bit of explanation!

Indeed, the paper I linked to in November is very clear:

"For Israel the 1967 war was, on the face of it, a the classic defensive war fought
for security: on the eve of the war, Israel was surrounded, Egypt had provided several
causus belli and the war is usually described as a pre-emptive one; Israel struck first
because war seemed inevitable. And yet the evidence is clear that Israel was not
seriously threatened militarily. Popp, 14 on the basis of recently de-classified
information, shows that 1967 was a war of choice, and that Israel had a premeditation
to commence hostilities since the balance of forces made a military defeat virtually
impossible. The Israeli generals were "spoiling for a fight" 15 Even less was it a pre-
emptive war--heading off an Egyptian attack--since Egypt had no intention of
attacking.16"

 
Another reason: Over the past 77 years Israelis have had to defend themselves in at least 3 wars that aimed at the destruction of Israel. Plus periods of "attrition" of guerilla attacks, plus a long history of terrorist attacks against civilians in the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv; bombs on buses, shootings at restaurants and bars, bombs in discoteques.
So they are fed up. Many are convinced that there is no hope of ever being accepted as neighbours by the Arabs, whatever they do or do not do. So the only possibility is to be as strong as possible in order to be left in peace.

Well they have completely ****ed it now. All they can expect is for it to be 10 times worse for decades. Living in Israel will be an isolated and horrible, militarised house arrest. Enjoy it, it cost you millions and hundreds more dead Israeli boys who could have lived full lives. Well done.
 
I cannot speak for any Israelis, let alone for a majority of them. I am not Israeli, but have spent a total of maybe three/four years there over a period of fifteen years and know many people there. I am not demanding that anybody credits anything, but merely observe, read a lot and comment, much as I image you do.
In most countries "Right" and "Left" is mainly about economics, but in Israel it is also very much about how to manage relations with the Palestinians and the neighbouring Arab countries.
The electoral system, as I'm sure you know, is perfectly proportional, which means any government has to be supported by a coalition. In the latest elections produced today's disastrous government. Which is perceived as disastrous by many people who once voted for Likkud and may even have voted in the past for a Bibi-led Likkud. What I'm told is that today's Likkud is not the "intelligent" and "reasonable" conservative party of the past, but has become a gang of Netanyahu yes-men. (A bit like the Tories?)
Even so, if Likkud had formed a coalition with Ganz, Lapid and what is left of the Labour Party, the character of the government would have been entirely different and entirely better (IMO). This did not happen because the centre+left had for years accused Bibi of corruption and mismangement and vowed to bring him to justice. So they rejected any idea of forming a coalition with him.
The result is today's coalition of the "new" Likkud with the nationalist settler-supporting parties and the extremist religious groups.

The obvious question is, why did they get elected?

One reason: The original democratic and socialist principles on which the initial concept of Israel was based, a tradition rooted in the European Left since the late 19th century, was embodied by several generations who came from Europe, or whose parents or grandparents came from Europe, with the idea of progressive democracy as absolutely essential. But more recent immigration has come from Arab/Muslim countries, and also from Russia, countries where democracy is/was completely unknown. These people, the so-called "eastern" Israelis, plus the ex-Russians, account for more than half the population. They tend to vote to the Right more than the Europeans, to be attracted by Bibi's thinly veiled "strong man" stance..

Another reason: Over the past 77 years Israelis have had to defend themselves in at least 3 wars that aimed at the destruction of Israel. Plus periods of "attrition" of guerilla attacks, plus a long history of terrorist attacks against civilians in the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv; bombs on buses, shootings at restaurants and bars, bombs in discoteques.
So they are fed up. Many are convinced that there is no hope of ever being accepted as neighbours by the Arabs, whatever they do or do not do. So the only possibility is to be as strong as possible in order to be left in peace.
One could read from the above that the vast majority of Israelis have their roots elsewhere, Europe and Russia, in recent history too.
Settler colonialism; being a "settler" of it's self may not necessarily be a bad thing, however if the indigenous people don't willingly acquiesce then violence and subjugation will follow.
 

A new abyss’: Gaza and the hundred years’ war on Palestine


While much has changed since 7 October, the horrific events of the past six months are not unique, and do not stand outside history
by Rashid Khalidi

 
The state of Israel is like a Jenga tower. we might just be seeing the beginning of the undermining of its foundations.

 

That is some very interesting polling. I have a feeling Netanyahu may have actually destroyed Israel as a concept. The sheer extent if his genocidal rage, racism, mass murder of women and children and cleave ethnic cleansing motive has now been seen by the whole world.

Israel is now the 21st century’s apartheid South Africa. It is toxic and needs dismantling. I’m sure the same trajectory will occur. No matter how ugly, corrupt and right-wing our politicians may right now be they will increasingly find public opinion opposed to supporting such a violent racist entity.

These things always move slowly but it would now surprise me if Israel still exists in anything like its current form in 20 years time. No one can forget what it is doing right now. Long term support from the west is untenable. As the electorate we demand politicians that do not enable, fund or profit from genocide and apartheid.
 
The state of Israel is like a Jenga tower. we might just be seeing the beginning of the undermining of its foundations.

I don’t think Israel will have much problem buying, money has an ability to induce amnesia, but selling products will be very different. There is rarely a single source of anything and it will be easy to avoid “buying Israeli” or investing.
 
World War 3 warning! o_O

Though I reckon we can expect any Iranian 'attack' to be a very damp squib.

US said to believe Iranian attack on Israel is imminent: ‘Matter of when, not if’​


The big problem here is if the US ends up fighting Iran then China may take the opportunity to go for Taiwan and start supplying Russia big time and China has no supply side problems and has a formidable tech sector. Then we in a different world, thanks Israel!
 
I don’t think Israel will have much problem buying, money has an ability to induce amnesia, but selling products will be very different. There is rarely a single source of anything and it will be easy to avoid “buying Israeli” or investing.
Firms will stay as long as there is a profit to be made. Others will pride themselves on 'sanctions busting,' as we saw in SA because they are in it for the politics (Barclays, that new Labour donor and his kid, etc,) but the BDS movement needs to become the political priority as the marches slow down...
 

‘Simply stalling’: Aid agencies say Israel can get much more aid into Gaza

Reporting from occupied East Jerusalem
When the Israelis pack a truck, they pack it half full so it makes it easier for them to inspect. That truck then goes across the border where it’s repacked by either the UN or the Egyptians and then it goes into Gaza.
That gives the Israelis a chance to blame the UN, to blame aid agencies for delaying aid.
But we should remember there were about 500 trucks a day going through various crossings before October 7 – that wasn’t aid, it was trade. So there are very well-established routes to get all of this aid into Gaza.
Aid agencies have been clear in saying the operational capability is there. Israel has the ability to get more aid in if it wants. But it’s simply stalling and they blame Israel squarely on that.

 
I don’t think Israel will have much problem buying, money has an ability to induce amnesia, but selling products will be very different. There is rarely a single source of anything and it will be easy to avoid “buying Israeli” or investing.
This is a handy wee app.

 
There are said to be 133 'captives' remaining alive in Gaza since somebody was wondering recently...

"The killing of Hamas political chief Ismail Haniyeh’s relatives further complicates negotiations aimed at securing a halt in the fighting in Gaza in exchange for the return of the 133 Israeli captives still believed to be held in the besieged enclave."

 
The big problem here is if the US ends up fighting Iran then China may take the opportunity to go for Taiwan and start supplying Russia big time and China has no supply side problems and has a formidable tech sector. Then we in a different world, thanks Israel!
I agree, but see it from a different angle. Israel is not the "source" or "root" of all this, but rather a smoldering conflict that Iran and Russia have brutally awakened, through Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis, to distract attention and resources from Ukraine and Putin's expansionist ambitions. And also to bolster Iran's role as THE charismatic force for all Muslims. This can, as you say, give China the opportunity to invade Taiwan. What also springs to mind is China's and Russia's ongoing penetration of Africa.
I think, and fear terribly, that Israel/Gaza is a proxy-skirmish in a struggle for control of the world.
 
An update on developments so far today:
  • A bid to secure full United Nations membership for Palestine has failed. Efforts may be made for another vote next week, but the United States would be likely to veto it.
  • USAID chief Samantha Power said she agreed with a UN-backed assessment of famine in Gaza, making her the first US official to acknowledge the scale of hunger in the besieged enclave.
  • The White House, however, appeared to take a slightly softer line saying famine was “imminent”.
 

US fears most of Hamas’s remaining captives already dead: Report

US intelligence officials fear most of Hamas’s remaining captives in Gaza are already dead, according to a report in the Wall Street Journal.
Hamas kidnapped some 220 people, including foreigners, when it launched its attack on Israel on October 7. After a brief ceasefire that saw some freed in exchange for Palestinians held in Israeli jails, dozens are thought to remain.
Israel estimates about 34 captives have died, but the Journal reported on Thursday that some US officials believe that number should be more than twice as high, which could complicate efforts to reach a new ceasefire deal.
The intelligence sources, who were not identified, said some of the captives died from the injuries they sustained in Hamas’s attack, while others succumbed to illness. Some may also have been killed in Israel’s ongoing assault on the territory, the report said.

 

Vote on UN Palestinian membership still ‘possibility’, but US likely to veto

Reporting from the United Nations, New York
It appears that once again Palestine’s bid to become a full member of the United Nations has died in the Security Council committee despite having a majority of Security Council members apparently approving the bid.
In 2011, Palestine also applied to be a full UN member, but that also died in committee. At that time, however, the General Assembly was able to elevate Palestine to the status of UN observer. That gives Palestine a lot of rights here at the UN but not, critically, the right to vote in the General Assembly, which is very important. So, Palestine essentially has been disenfranchised from this organisation that it participates in for many, many years now.
The issue could still potentially go to the Security Council in a resolution for a vote. That is still a possibility and that could come as early as next week. But the bottom line is that even if it does go that far, the US is prepared to veto it.

 
So on Wednesday zionists can target murder 3 sons and a number of grandchildren of Hamas POLITICAL leader with impunity. They are disgusting.
What a pity Hamas cannot murder that monster netanyahu.
 


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