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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

I doubt most British people know or care that the majority of Israelis are Jewish.
They have however, been made well aware that Muslims are other and often bad.
 
notaclue said:
Situation with the Houthis in Yemen could be set to escalate dramatically.

US sank three small boats today. And now a report in The Times that the US and UK are preparing to launch a "wave of attacks" on Yemen.

GCsL6R9XUAANUdI


www.thetimes.co.uk

UK preparing for attacks on Houthi rebels with US

The militant group has caused chaos in the Red Sea by attacking and hijacking ships
www.thetimes.co.uk www.thetimes.co.uk
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Playing right into their hands potentially. This is not a small development. Iranian and Hezbollah funded “rebels” supposedly. More proxy war.
 
MVV said:
I doubt most British people know or care that the majority of Israelis are Jewish.
They have however, been made well aware that Muslims are other and often bad.
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Most people, not just Brits, don't really know what a Jew is, and think that Israel was established with a kind of D-Day landing in 1945-1947. If you ask them if they know what the Ottoman Empire was, they mumble "Well, yeah, sort of...."
I don't know if it is true, but recently there was a media report that American students protesting against the war in Gaza were asked where Gaza and Israel are, and most failed to give a satisfactory answer.
As for Muslims, centuries of Euro-centric and Christian-influenced education and culture have relegated them to the "uncivilised" part of humanity. And 60-odd years of Arab and/or Islamic terrorism (justified or unjustified) have not helped.
Also, Brits see French and Italians as "other," Greeks and Turks as a step further in "otherness," so even a super-rich Arab living in a huge flat in Knightsbridge with bodyguards will be seen as yet another step further in "otherness."
I suppose it is human nature.
 
Jubal said:
Playing right into their hands potentially. This is not a small development. Iranian and Hezbollah funded “rebels” supposedly. More proxy war.
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Why do you say this could be playing into their hands? Isn't preventing them from attacking shipping in the Red Sea a good thing?
(This is a genuine, candid question).
 
Peter Dyer said:
Here's an interesting interview from a couple of weeks ago with the economist Jeffrey Sachs on how Israel is running out of time to save itself. It's mainly about Israel/Gaza but he does go into the Russia/Ukraine war and US involvment which may ruffle a few feathers.

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Just bouncing this very sensible if rather long conversation. I took place over two weeks ago so I guess it is now past the place of no return.
 
PaulMB said:
Why do you say this could be playing into their hands? Isn't preventing them from attacking shipping in the Red Sea a good thing?
(This is a genuine, candid question).
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I’m speculating obviously. But surely attacking shipping is a strategy to get us and the US more involved? If we’re defensive only then I applaud our restraint. My fear is with our and the Israeli govts. We appear to be spectacularly unable to find tactics that don’t drag us into a slowly escalating fight.
 
droodzilla said:
Biden now being very clear about his priorities:

www.theguardian.com

Biden administration again bypasses Congress for weapons sale to Israel

Antony Blinken tells Congress he made second emergency determination covering $147.5m sale for equipment
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com



It must be obvious, at this point, that any talk of the US putting pressure on Israel to spare civilians is strictly for the rubes.
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I reckon it's possible they will have quietly agreed something minor as a compromise. A compromise that heavily favours Israel, of course. A toning down of the indiscriminate bombing or something like that.

The US supposedly gave them till early January and now the IDF is withdrawing some troops.

"The Israel Defense Forces said Sunday it was beginning to release five brigades from combat in the Gaza Strip"

Israel also now saying it expects the war to continue for the whole of 2024. A significant increase over earlier estimates. Could signal a reduction in the intensity of the war. Though the supposed US demand to end the war within weeks is clearly never going to happen.

 
Jubal said:
I’m speculating obviously. But surely attacking shipping is a strategy to get us and the US more involved? If we’re defensive only then I applaud our restraint. My fear is with our and the Israeli govts. We appear to be spectacularly unable to find tactics that don’t drag us into a slowly escalating fight.
Click to expand...
I suppose so. On the other (I'm also speculating) hand Iran would like to dominate that part of the world, using Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis. So allowing the Houthis, and therefore Iran, to decide if ships pass through the Red Sea would be handing them a victory that increases their prestige and power. I don't see how "we" can avoid being drawn in. I hope there is some tactic to avoid this, without handing half of Asia over to Iranian domination.
 
PaulMB said:
I suppose so. On the other (I'm also speculating) hand Iran would like to dominate that part of the world, using Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis. So allowing the Houthis, and therefore Iran, to decide if ships pass through the Red Sea would be handing them a victory that increases their prestige and power. I don't see how "we" can avoid being drawn in. I hope there is some tactic to avoid this, without handing half of Asia over to Iranian domination.
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To accuse Iran of wanting to “dominate” that part of the world is the same as accusing Hamas of expansionist intent. Both ignore the historic contexts that caused the rise of those regimes.

The truth is that both entities have been dominated by interference from the West. In the case of Iran it was the UK and US that overthrew that democracy in Iran with bribery, corruption and subversion in order to replace democracy with a murderous puppet regime.

The Iranian revolution was a reaction to a western imposed tyrant, not an agenda for domination.

The fact of the matter is that most of the problems in the ME have their origins in Western interference and Western domination of that part of the world
 
The BBC's "anti-Israel bias" exposed:


We examined four weeks (7 October to 4 November) of BBC One daytime coverage of the 2023 Gaza war using the database TV Eyes to identify which terms were used by journalists themselves (not in direct or reported statements) to describe Israeli and Palestinian deaths.

We found that “murder”, “murderous”, “mass murder”, “brutal murder” and “merciless murder” were used a total of 52 times by journalists to refer to Israelis’ deaths but never in relation to Palestinian deaths. The same pattern could been seen in relation to “massacre”, “brutal massacre” and “horrific massacre” (35 times for Israeli deaths, not once for Palestinian deaths); “atrocity”, “horrific atrocity” and “appalling atrocity” (22 times for Israeli deaths, once for Palestinian deaths); and “slaughter” (five times for Israeli deaths, not once for Palestinian deaths).

But the issue goes beyond these differences. The Palestinian perspective is effectively absent from the coverage, in how they understand the reasons for the conflict and the nature of the occupation under which they are living.
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Hopefully, the BBC will redress the balance, and give a stronger voice to Israel in future.
 
PaulMB said:
I suppose so. On the other (I'm also speculating) hand Iran would like to dominate that part of the world, using Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis. So allowing the Houthis, and therefore Iran, to decide if ships pass through the Red Sea would be handing them a victory that increases their prestige and power. I don't see how "we" can avoid being drawn in. I hope there is some tactic to avoid this, without handing half of Asia over to Iranian domination.
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That’s a stretch. But we’re all just musing. Like I said, if we’re defensive then I’m fully supportive. If we get suckered into anything like the same mess Israel has made for itself then we’re doomed to repeat our less than glorious ME history in some fashion.
 
ks.234 said:
To accuse Iran of wanting to “dominate” that part of the world is the same as accusing Hamas of expansionist intent. Both ignore the historic contexts that caused the rise of those regimes.

The truth is that both entities have been dominated by interference from the West. In the case of Iran it was the UK and US that overthrew that democracy in Iran with bribery, corruption and subversion in order to replace democracy with a murderous puppet regime.

The Iranian revolution was a reaction to a western imposed tyrant, not an agenda for domination.

The fact of the matter is that most of the problems in the ME have their origins in Western interference and Western domination of that part of the world
Click to expand...
The Anglo-American coup was in 1953, 71 years ago. Iran has been an "Islamic Republic" for 45 years. Your narrative, in which "the West" is responsible for everything suggests that Iranians are incapable of managing themselves. Which I think is untrue and, in a sense, racist. The Shah was solidly supported by an Iranian middle class, the 1978-79 revolution was brought about by the Iranian masses, and after a brief, secular, Kerensky-like interval was taken over by the religious extremists.
I don't think there is any doubt that Iran would like to be the top dog in the Middle East, as would Erdogan's Turkey. Then there is Saudi Arabia, which seems essentially to be concerned with its own welfare, and to this end with profitable collaboration with "the West."
 
ks.234 said:
To accuse Iran of wanting to “dominate” that part of the world is the same as accusing Hamas of expansionist intent. Both ignore the historic contexts that caused the rise of those regimes.
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If you have a spare 30 minutes, have a read of this:

www.iiss.org

Iran’s Strategic Intent | Qassem Soleimani

Explore how Iran has refined its strategic doctrine since the end of the Iraq-Iran War and learn how its expeditionary security and military capacity has evolved to meet new demands.
www.iiss.org www.iiss.org

(It is a bit out of date given the demise of Soleimani, but the rest remans true, I believe)

So "dominate" is probably not the right word but they wish to be the strategic power in the region leading a Shia 'axis' of several countries and forces in the region who can fight on their behalf.
 

Palestinian Authority reacts to report about Blair’s role in Gaza ‘evacuation’​

The Palestinian Authority (PA) ministry of foreign affairs has said that it hopes that “Tony Blair is not involved in this crime that falls under the Israeli government plan to deepen genocide and forced displacement among Palestinians”.
On Sunday, an Israeli news channel reported that the former UK prime minister was going to be the point person to find European countries that would take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza.
A spokesperson for Tony Blair denied he would be taking on this role.
Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates// closely following the news of #Blair undertaking the alleged voluntary #evacuation mission of our people from the Gaza Strip#Gaza_under_attack#CeasefireNow#Palestine#Israeliwarcrimes pic.twitter.com/x8IQFNRCtN
— State of Palestine – MFA 🇵🇸🇵🇸 (@pmofa) January 1, 2024
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www.aljazeera.com

Israel intensifies air attacks on central Gaza as reservists pulled back

Air raids focus on the Maghazi, Jabalia refugee camps as Israel pulls back thousands of reservists from ground invasion.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
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