Voter suppression: UK Voter ID

[Rockmeister]

No, potentially 100 000s (4% of the vote) because they're taking an estimate of the fraction of people who never left the house because they already knew that they didnt have the id. This is the determining factor that I predicted up thread and part of the craftiness of the scheme. They'll point to the hard numbers as you have and say look, it's diddly squat. That'll be more than enough to sway a tight vote at the GE because the report also indentified the disproportionate impact on those less likely (much less likely in fact) to vote Tory.

But numbers aside (and I admit the difference in impact), they can be no effect at GE time since everyone now knows how to get ID. I mean, if you were just turned away, and wanted to vote, how can you NOT now understand what to do about it?

 

[gavreid]

But numbers aside (and I admit the difference in impact), they can be no effect at GE time since everyone now knows how to get ID. I mean, if you were just turned away, and wanted to vote, how can you NOT now understand what to do about it?

That wasn't the case. It'sbeen acknowleded that Councils didn't have the resources to advertise ids while Passports are prohibitively expensive for many people.

 

[Rockmeister]

see post 26.

 

[gavreid]

British democracy is being “warped” by an unfair system for drawing constituency boundaries that ignores millions of “missing voters” and hugely benefits the Tories, according to a new study of official data.

"Analysis by the political commentator and pollster Peter Kellner shows that if constituencies were determined according to the size of their populations rather than the number of registered voters – as happens in most other advanced democracies – then the number of extra Labour seats created would cut the Tories’ Commons majority by 22."

“A 22-seat variation in a close election could well be decisive. Indeed, the bias in the present system helped the Tories over the line in three of the last four general elections.” Explaining his findings to the Observer, he said: “We have known for years that millions of eligible adults are omitted from the electoral register.

[Corbyn really won - imagine]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...labour-seats-due-to-electoral-boundaries-bias

 

[Jubal]

British democracy is being “warped” by an unfair system for drawing constituency boundaries that ignores millions of “missing voters” and hugely benefits the Tories, according to a new study of official data.

"Analysis by the political commentator and pollster Peter Kellner shows that if constituencies were determined according to the size of their populations rather than the number of registered voters – as happens in most other advanced democracies – then the number of extra Labour seats created would cut the Tories’ Commons majority by 22."

“A 22-seat variation in a close election could well be decisive. Indeed, the bias in the present system helped the Tories over the line in three of the last four general elections.” Explaining his findings to the Observer, he said: “We have known for years that millions of eligible adults are omitted from the electoral register.

[Corbyn really won - imagine]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...labour-seats-due-to-electoral-boundaries-bias

Ignoring children, if people were registered to vote then the boundaries would be largely similar. Like ID, if apathy or minor inconvenience stands in the way then it’s hardly up to the “system” to compensate. People should care.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Ignoring children, if people were registered to vote then the boundaries would be largely similar. Like ID, if apathy or minor inconvenience stands in the way then it’s hardly up to the “system” to compensate. People should care.

Disagree. Some people don’t bother because there’s no point. Their interests and preferences don’t matter because they are in a safe seat. Or there’s no party that speaks for them. If you want people to engage, give them something to engage for.

UK politics is like a business that offers a crap product blaming its customers for staying away. If you want to grow your customer base, make a better product or provide a better service. Don’t demand that they buy from you first before you’ll think about providing what they need.

 

[Gingerbeard]

Disagree. Some people don’t bother because there’s no point. Their interests and preferences don’t matter because they are in a safe seat. Or there’s no party that speaks for them. If you want people to engage, give them something to engage for.

UK politics is like a business that offers a crap product blaming its customers for staying away. If you want to grow your customer base, make a better product or provide a better service. Don’t demand that they buy from you first before you’ll think about providing what they need.

I’m very much at this point and am completely disillusioned with all the main parties. It’s a never ending merry go around of incompetence, from one party to the next. It just strikes me that they are all out for their own interests, can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery (although managed to during lockdown!) and are just running the country into the ground. There is also zero accountability too, which just drives me crackers and they are so out of touch with real life it’s staggering.

For the first time, I have absolutely no desire or inclination to vote next year!

 

[palindrome]

I’m very much at this point and am completely disillusioned with all the main parties. It’s a never ending merry go around of incompetence, from one party to the next. It just strikes me that they are all out for their own interests, can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery (although managed to during lockdown!) and are just running the country into the ground. There is also zero accountability too, which just drives me crackers and they are so out of touch with real life it’s staggering.

For the first time, I have absolutely no desire or inclination to vote next year!

Couldn't agree more. I have to stay away from the news every so often, especially politics, as it's so damned depressing.

John

 

[Jubal]

Disagree. Some people don’t bother because there’s no point. Their interests and preferences don’t matter because they are in a safe seat. Or there’s no party that speaks for them. If you want people to engage, give them something to engage for.

UK politics is like a business that offers a crap product blaming its customers for staying away. If you want to grow your customer base, make a better product or provide a better service. Don’t demand that they buy from you first before you’ll think about providing what they need.

The product analogy isn’t quite the same. You’re describing political apathy in my book. If you want change, lobby for it. Do something. Don’t wring your hands waiting for someone else to do something.

I do believe PR would make sense or variations thereof. FPTP has had its day.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

You assume I have not? I've been lobbying for, and supporting voter reform organisations, for quite some time. I write to My MP, I add my name to petitions I support, I have been on marches and will doubtless do so again when the time comes. It's all pretty ineffectual, hasn't achieved much at all, and is unlikely to. The system is designed so it doesn't. Most people are not apathetic, they are disengaged because they see no hope for change. That's an entirely rational point of view. It's not apathy.

 

[Jubal]

You assume I have not? I've been lobbying for, and supporting voter reform organisations, for quite some time. I write to My MP, I add my name to petitions I support, I have been on marches and will doubtless do so again when the time comes. It's all pretty ineffectual, hasn't achieved much at all, and is unlikely to. The system is designed so it doesn't. Most people are not apathetic, they are disengaged because they see no hope for change. That's an entirely rational point of view. It's not apathy.

Good for you then. You’re in a tiny minority who are active. I still think anyone who doesn’t do something/anything is apathetic. If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got!

 

[PaulMB]

I’m very much at this point and am completely disillusioned with all the main parties. It’s a never ending merry go around of incompetence, from one party to the next. It just strikes me that they are all out for their own interests, can’t organise a p*ss up in a brewery (although managed to during lockdown!) and are just running the country into the ground. There is also zero accountability too, which just drives me crackers and they are so out of touch with real life it’s staggering.

For the first time, I have absolutely no desire or inclination to vote next year!

If its any consolation, this is not a UK phenomenon. It is global. The only thing to do, as Indro Montanelli once said of Italy, is to hold your nose and vote for whoever stinks less.

 

[PaulMB]

In the sense that not voting is worse, since it hands the decision over to others.

 

[KrisW]

If its any consolation, this is not a UK phenomenon. It is global. The only thing to do, as Indro Montanelli once said of Italy, is to hold your nose and vote for whoever stinks less.

The difference is that, in Italy, percentages of votes cast does map reasonably closely to the percentages of seats won. The UK electoral system can't even promise that...

 

[Mick P]

The product analogy isn’t quite the same. You’re describing political apathy in my book. If you want change, lobby for it. Do something. Don’t wring your hands waiting for someone else to do something.

I do believe PR would make sense or variations thereof. FPTP has had its day.

The only people who want PR are those who support minority parties who cannot muster enough votes to win enough elections to take power.

The minority parties who cannot muster votes do not deserve to be elected.

The Tories and Labour have the policies that most people want and hence get voted in.

Neither the Tories nor Labour will ever introduce PR so it's basically a pipe dream.

 

[Tony L]

The Conservative and Labour parties are fundamentally corrupt and morally bankrupt. They can only possibly survive in a gerrymandered system, so that is what they force upon us.

 

[PaulMB]

The difference is that, in Italy, percentages of votes cast does map reasonably closely to the percentages of seats won. The UK electoral system can't even promise that...

Yes, your point is taken. But in a sense the principle is the same. If you don't vote, you are simply giving your vote to those who do vote. So better to vote for the party or movement you find least repulsive. Even if you vote for a movement that has no hope in hell of getting even one MP, you are reinforcing that movement vis-a-vis the others and expressing a criticism of the others.

 

[Mick P]

The Conservative and Labour parties are fundamentally corrupt and morally bankrupt. They can only possibly survive in a gerrymandered system, so that is what they force upon us.

They both survive because they both win more votes than anyone else and they do this because the electorate votes for them. All the minority parties have to do is to have more policies with more appeal. If they can't do that, then they do not deserve to have an ounce of power.

 

[Tony L]

They both survive because they both win more votes than anyone else and they do this because the electorate votes for them. All the minority parties have to do is to have more policies with more appeal. If they can't do that, then they do not deserve to have an ounce of power.

You either believe in democracy, or you don’t. It really is that simple. What you are selling is not democracy. It is a gerrymandered two-party dictatorship.

 

[Mick P]

You either believe in democracy, or you don’t. It really is that simple. What you are selling is not democracy. It is a gerrymandered two-party dictatorship.

If two people stand against each the winner takes the job and the loser walks away to lick his wounds because the electorate rejected him and that is how it should be.

Labour kicked the Liberals out of second place between the wars because Labour were more in tune with what the electorate wanted. The Liberals seem unable to win the confidence of the public and that's their fault and no one else's.