Somafunk
pfm Member
You have to be 16+ and developed opposable thumbs to vote, give it a few years and by then I’m sure you’ll manage to scrawl an X on the voting slip
Voter suppression: UK Voter ID
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
You have to be 16+ and developed opposable thumbs to vote, give it a few years and by then I’m sure you’ll manage to scrawl an X on the voting slip
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
193 “alleged” frauds. Of which 2 were sanctioned.
https://www.electoralcommission.org...lectoral-fraud-data/2022-electoral-fraud-data
Darmok
pfm Member
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
A quick scan of wiki says a lot of European countries have voter ID laws including Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands and most of Scandinavia .....
Tony L
Administrator
Again it isn’t the concept of ID that is the issue, it is how it was so cynically designed to disenfranchise young, poor and minority votes, i.e. intended to suppress the non-Tory vote. It is a mirror of what the Republicans have been doing in the US to deter black areas from voting for generations.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Indeed. AIUI all those other countries already have ID cards for all citizens, so there's no question of voters being unable to exercise the franchise due to inadequate ID.
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Yeah I remember our youngest's astonishment when he was denied a vote having taken his card with him to the polling station and being told he had already voted at the 2017 GE ...
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, rather alarming that some people don’t get this
Spraggons Den
pfm Member
Maybe we should have national ID cards - like the Europeans (excluding Ireland and Denmark).
paulfromcamden
Baffled
...though all the evidence suggests there isn't a significant problem.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
More than this, any problem which is acknowledged to exist, exists in the postal voting regime, for which voter ID is not a solution. So it's a 'cure' for a problem that doesn't exist, and fails to cure a problem that does exist.
gavreid
Pretty Words...
At least 14,000 people denied vote due to lack of voter ID, watchdog finds
About 14,000 people were turned away from polling stations at May’s local elections because they lacked the right ID, with the overall number denied a vote likely to be considerably higher, the official elections watchdog has said.
The interim study by the Electoral Commission also warned of “concerning” signs that voters with disabilities, people who are unemployed, or those from particular ethnic groups could be disproportionately affected by the policy.
It also said that 4% of people who did not vote said it was because of voter ID – a tally that could run into hundreds of thousands more.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-vote-due-to-lack-of-voter-id-watchdog-finds
About 14,000 people were turned away from polling stations at May’s local elections because they lacked the right ID, with the overall number denied a vote likely to be considerably higher, the official elections watchdog has said.
The interim study by the Electoral Commission also warned of “concerning” signs that voters with disabilities, people who are unemployed, or those from particular ethnic groups could be disproportionately affected by the policy.
It also said that 4% of people who did not vote said it was because of voter ID – a tally that could run into hundreds of thousands more.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...d-vote-due-to-lack-of-voter-id-watchdog-finds
Dave H.
Revolutionary relativist
So predictable.
Makes me wonder whether Rees-Mogg’s open admission that it was an attempt at gerrymandering was strategic.
Alt-right messaging is often about seeding, deploying a payload of (mis-)information into the public consciousness. So perhaps JRM was trying to get the response in before the findings were published, so that there’s already a fake news impression out there that it harmed the Tories by the time the evidence is in and shows that it did the opposite.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
I doubt anything Rees-Mogg says should be taken at face value or, particularly, seriously.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
The vote that is going to matter most, is the GE. I'd anyway be fascinated to see stats that showed where these denied voters are, and how their denial affected the council seats. My guess is that the results would be barely changed at all. Not the point at all ofc, but relevant to the reality of the result.
No, the point is that all that's occurred is that the government have alerted the population to the need for an ID card in time for the real election coming up. The press have shouted about it, and even the least politically aware person on the planet must now know what to do, if, they want to vote. No one has yet asked the 'denied' if they wanted to vote anyway. Looking at voting stats in general, 30-40% may not have done.
So, we all now know (and particularly those dis-voted know very very well) that we need to get sorted before election time. Even those who for whatever reason find it tough to get the right ID have long enough to get the help needed now.
If this was a cunning plan to deny potential left wing voters a vote, it was a bloody silly plan.
Are the gov't planners that stupid?
I doubt it. And although we hate any gerrymandering, 14,000 lost votes from 47,000,000 potential voters is not really going to make the slightest difference.
Wrong? Yes, if it was deliberate. Bad? Yes if it was deliberate, but an effective plan? This public? This ineffective?
If anything I'd guess it as a softening up tactic to prepare us for compulsory ID cards.
"Oh we are SO sorry that those poor people coulndn't vote! DEEPLY concerned and ofc we must put this right straight away. Hmmmm. OH! We have a solution! I.D. cards. Brilliant"
No, the point is that all that's occurred is that the government have alerted the population to the need for an ID card in time for the real election coming up. The press have shouted about it, and even the least politically aware person on the planet must now know what to do, if, they want to vote. No one has yet asked the 'denied' if they wanted to vote anyway. Looking at voting stats in general, 30-40% may not have done.
So, we all now know (and particularly those dis-voted know very very well) that we need to get sorted before election time. Even those who for whatever reason find it tough to get the right ID have long enough to get the help needed now.
If this was a cunning plan to deny potential left wing voters a vote, it was a bloody silly plan.
Are the gov't planners that stupid?
I doubt it. And although we hate any gerrymandering, 14,000 lost votes from 47,000,000 potential voters is not really going to make the slightest difference.
Wrong? Yes, if it was deliberate. Bad? Yes if it was deliberate, but an effective plan? This public? This ineffective?
If anything I'd guess it as a softening up tactic to prepare us for compulsory ID cards.
"Oh we are SO sorry that those poor people coulndn't vote! DEEPLY concerned and ofc we must put this right straight away. Hmmmm. OH! We have a solution! I.D. cards. Brilliant"
gavreid
Pretty Words...
No, potentially 100 000s (4% of the vote) because they're taking an estimate of the fraction of people who never left the house because they already knew that they didnt have the id. This is the determining factor that I predicted up thread and part of the craftiness of the scheme. They'll point to the hard numbers as you have and say look, it's diddly squat. That'll be more than enough to sway a tight vote at the GE because the report also indentified the disproportionate impact on those less likely (much less likely in fact) to vote Tory.
Tony L
Administrator
Take everything as exactly what it is; a multi-millionaire asset manager who makes use of tax-havens etc masquerading as a politician to influence matters in the political and financial interest of himself and his class. He is exactly what he appears to be.