Vast Brexit thread merge part IV

[deanf]

We will Remain in one form of 'shackles of EU control' or another. When Juncker says 'its a fair and balanced agreement for the EU and the UK', what he is saying in EU speak is the UK will be tied to the EU and eventually become dependent like Greece, Italy and ROI.

Only if we want to trade with them, go there on holiday, live peacefully, maintain security, retain our global power... etc.

 

[gavreid]

Source? If support for his deal was conditional on one, I'd be interested in knowing how.

There would have to be primary legislation to establish a new referrendum

 

[droodzilla]

To widespread lack of surprise John Mann has stated he will vote for the Boris deal.

He's Johnson's lackey now ("Anti-Semitism Advisor", IIRC).

 

[SteveS1]

There would have to be primary legislation to establish a new referrendum

I'm not sure that's a problem. A confirmatory vote would be extended for by the EU without issue. There would be no incentive to heel drag the preparation for a vote.

 

[notaclue]

It's 'no, no and thrice no' from the DUP https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1184802818537996289

 

[droodzilla]

It's 'no, no and thrice no' from the DUP https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1184802818537996289

And from the frog-faced fascist:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/watch-nigel-farages-withering-verdict-on-boriss-brexit-deal/

Apols for link to far-right hate rag.

 

[gavreid]

I'm not sure that's a problem. A confirmatory vote would be extended for by the EU without issue. There would be no incentive to heel drag the preparation for a vote.

He plans to leave on 31st October regardless

 

[SteveS1]

He plans to leave on 31st October regardless

Then he will be in contempt of the Supreme Court.

 

[Tony L]

He's Johnson's lackey now ("Anti-Semitism Advisor", IIRC).

What is your take on the numbers, will Johnson’s deal get through?

I honestly don’t know. I’d sincerely hope no one in the SNP will vote for it, the Lib Dems will only vote for it if a 2nd referendum was attached with remain as the only other option (i.e. they’d just use it as a tool to get a 2nd ref), which leaves Labour as the main variable...

 

[droodzilla]

Can someone help me with the numbers? I don't see how it passes. Labour 'rebels' 20 tops and I seriously doubt that many when push comes to shove. Even with the DUP, doesn't amount to a pass.

Hard to see many (if any) of Kinnock's Wrecking Crew voting for it.

It's considerably worse than May's deal, which almost all of them voted against. Also, many of that group of 20 MPs were friends with Jo Cox, so they'll have zero goodwill for Johnson after he trashed her memory in the HoC a few weeks ago.

Can't see it getting through the HoC but that might all be part of the plan ("Parliament frustrates the will of the people! Again!).

 

[gavreid]

I think he could possibly leave with no deal if Parliament attempts to change what is currently on the table by introducing new clauses or caveats.

 

[Avinunca]

DUP say 'no'. Though I'm sure they actually said 'never'.

The last sentence -

This would probably take the form of the BBC showing the horrors of Northern Ireland during the troubles. Whether there is any truth or not that NI would return to the troubles is immaterial the objective is that some voters would be swayed to vote remain.

Project Fear - ah yes I remember the Leave campaigns - Turkey joining the EU with the imminent arrival on our shores of millions. Then there was the huge poster of people fleeing from war. These I believe should be known as Project Fear and the label the Leave campaign very cleverly dreamed up could more appropriately be changed to 'Project awkward facts we don't give a f**k about but threaten our beloved Brexit'.

 

[zarniwoop]

There's always this: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...hnson-putting-withdrawal-agreement-before-mps

Maugham tweeted: “I intend to lodge an immediate petition for an injunction in the court of session preventing the government from placing the withdrawal agreement before parliament for approval.

“We expect that petition to be lodged tomorrow and to be heard on Friday. We believe the government’s proposed withdrawal agreement is contrary to section 55 of the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act 2018.

“We do not understand how the government might have come to negotiate a withdrawal agreement in terms that breach amendments tabled by its own European Research Group."

 

[thebigfredc]

I t

Yet when I was chatting to my labour activist friend the other day he told me lots about the conference, lots about labour and Brexit and lots about labour social policies and nothing at all about anti semitism, we had a good natter as his kids were in the local synagogue.

Yes I find it hard to reconcile with my image of the traditional Labour Party. Must be a sign of its current leadership.

 

[droodzilla]

What is your take on the numbers, will Johnson’s deal get through?

I honestly don’t know. I’d sincerely hope no one in the SNP will vote for it, the Lib Dems will only vote for it if a 2nd referendum was attached with remain as the only other option (i.e. they’d just use it as a tool to get a 2nd ref), which leaves Labour as the main variable...

See my previous post. It's a significantly harder Brexit than May's deal and offers less on workers' rights and environmental protections (from a proven liar, at that). Hard to see any Labour MPs, apart from the known Brexit nutters, going for it, so that's around 5 votes from Labour, tops.

I think the Tory "rebels" are more critical, especially the ones who lost the whip.

But without the DUP, I don't see how this deal gets close to being approved by the HoC - which might be Johnson's plan, anyway.

 

[Avinunca]

BJ preparing to remove the whip from any remaining Tories who refuse to back his rubbish bill. Lib dems ordering extra tea and cakes.

 

[Tony L]

But without the DUP, I don't see how this deal gets close to being approved by the HoC - which might be Johnson's plan, anyway.

Yes, I have a bad feeling about this, i.e. I have a feeling the real nutters and financial backers in the Conservative Party think they have found a way of ignoring the Benn act and getting their hedge-fund cash payout. I’m certain there is quite a substantial subset at the top who are quite prepared to trash everything move out with their spoils. They don’t need to care about the UK as they don’t need to be here, so can just view the whole thing as an asset-stripping game. My fear is they have a plan we haven’t seen yet...

 

[Colin Barron]

Only if we want to trade with them, go there on holiday, live peacefully, maintain security, retain our global power... etc.

What you are describing is the EEC, it is came and went. What we have now is a Federal Europe with ever increasing centralised control.

 

[gavreid]

Yes, I have a bad feeling about this, i.e. I have a feeling the real nutters and financial backers in the Conservative Party think they have found a way of ignoring the Benn act and getting their hedge-fund cash payout. I’m certain there is quite a substantial subset at the top who are quite prepared to trash everything move out with their spoils. They don’t need to care about the UK as they don’t need to be here, so can just view the whole thing as an asset-stripping game. My fear is they have a plan we haven’t seen yet...

It's tempting to think that BJ is as thick as the hair on his backside, but they thought this through months ago...

 

[droodzilla]

I t

Yes I find it hard to reconcile with my image of the traditional Labour Party. Must be a sign of its current leadership.

Must be (EDM = Early Day Motion). Don't you just hate anti-semites who spend years covering their tracks by fighting anti-semitism. He's a cunning b*stard, is Corbyn.

Corbyn organised the Apr. 1977 defence of Jewish populated Wood Green from a Neo-Nazi march
EDM3933 7 Nov. 1990: Corbyn signs motion condemning the rise of antisemitism
EDM634, 11 Apr. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion condemning Datuvid Irving for being a Holocaust Denier
EDM1124, 6 Nov. 2000: Jeremy Corbyn praised the ‘British Schindler’, Bill Barazetti, for his WW2 kindertransport
EDM742, 28 Jan. 2002: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion praising football clubs for commemorating Holocaust Day
EDM1233 30 Apr. 2002: Corbyn was a primary sponsor on a motion condemning antisemitism
11 May 2002: Jeremy led a clean up of Finsbury Park Synagogue after an anti-Semitic attack
EDM1691, 23 July 2002: Corbyn condemned attacks on a synagogue in Swansea
EDM123 26 Nov. 2003: Corbyn officially condemns attacks on 2 Istanbul synagogues
EDM298, 16 Dec. 2003: Jeremy Corbyn signs motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
2004: Jeremy condemned news that anti-Semitic hate crimes had risen for yet another year
EDM461, 21 Jan. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the French government’s moves to ban the Jewish Kippa in French Schools
EDM717, 26 Feb. 2004: Jeremy signed a motion praising Simon Wiesenthal for bringing Nazi perpetrators of the Holocaust to justice
EDM1613, 8 Sept. 2004: Corbyn co-sponsored a bill expressing fears for the future of the United Synagogue Pension Scheme
EDM1699, 11 Oct. 2004: Jeremy Corbyn condemned arbitrary attacks on civilians in Israel and Palestine
EDM482, 12 Jan. 2005: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM343, 16 June 2005: Jeremy condemned the desecration of a Jewish cemetery in east London
EDM1343, 11 Jan. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion commemorating International Holocaust Day
EDM1774, 8 Mar. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn led condemnations of an Iranian Magazine soliciting cartoons about the Holocaust
EDM1267, 16 Apr. 2006: Jeremy Corbyn condemned Bryan Ferry for anti-Semitic remarks
EDM2414, 26 June 2006: Jeremy Corbyn praised British war veterans for their efforts to combat the Holocaust
EDM2705, 10 Oct. 2006: Jeremy signed a motion marking the 70th anniversary of Cable Street
EDM271, 14 Nov. 2007: Jeremy co-sponsored a motion lamenting the poverty and social exclusion East London Jews suffered
EDM153, 12 May 2008: Corbyn praised the efforts of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto during the uprising of 1944
EDM2350, 27 Oct 2008: Jeremy Corbyn signs a motion marking the 70th anniversary of the horrors of the holocaust
EDM173, 8 Dec. 2008: Jeremy condemned the Press Complaints Commission for refusing to sanction The Times for antisemitism
EDM461, 14 Jan. 2009: Jeremy Corbyn condemned a wave of recent anti-Semitic incidents targeted
EDM605, 27 Jan. 2009: Corbyn signed John Mann’s motion condemning antisemitism on university campuses
EDM917 26 Feb. 2009: Jeremy signs a motion condemning antisemitism on the internet
EDM1175 24 Mar. 2009: Corbyn signs a motion praising the heroism of British Jews during Holocaust
EDM337, 2 Dec. 2009: Jeremy Condemned Iran’s treatment of Jewish minorities in Iran
EDM850 9 Feb. 2010: Jeremy joins in calls for Facebook to do more to fight antisemitism
EDM891: 22 Feb 2010: Corbyn co-sponsors a motion calling for Yemen’s Jews to be given refugee status to the UK
EDM908 27 Oct. 2010: Corbyn praises work of late Israeli PM in his pursuit of a 2 state solution
EDM1360, 27 Jan. 2011: Corbyn co-sponsored a motion praising the ‘never again for anyone initiative’
EDM1527, 3 Mar. 2011: Corbyn backed Ian Paisley's motion condemning the anti-Semitic remarks of Dior's lead fashion designer
EDM2870, 14 Mar. 2012: Jeremy Corbyn condemned the sale of Nazi memorabilia at an auction in Bristol
EDM2866, 14 Mar 2012: Jeremy Corbyn co-sponsored a bill condemning the rise of antisemitism in Lithuania
EDM2899, 20 Mar. 2012, Jeremy Corbyn condemned a terrorist attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse
EDM168, 12 June 2012, Jeremy co-sponsored a motion condemning anti-Semitic attacks during EURO 2012 in Poland
EDM 195 13 June 2012: Jeremy attacks BBC for cutting Jewish programmes from Its schedule
EDM 1133 1 Mar 2013: Corbyn joins a chorus of calls condemning antisemitism In sport
1 Oct. 2013: Corbyn was one of the few MPs who defended Ralph Miliband from Daily Mail antisemitism
EDM 932 9 Jan 2014: Jeremy praises Holocaust Memorial's work on antisemitism education
EDM 165 22 June 2015: Jeremy condemns a Neo-Nazi rally planned for a Jewish area of London
Sat 4 July 2015: Jeremy co-planned a counter-fascist demo in defence of Jewish residents at Golders Green. The march was re-routed
18 Nov. 2015, Corbyn used one of his first PMQs to challenge Cameron to do more on antisemitism
9 Oct 2016: Corbyn, close to tears, leads commemoration of the Battle of Cable Street
3 Dec. 2016: Corbyn visits Terezin Concentration Camp to commemorate Holocaust victims
In 2017-19 Jeremy introduced 20 new measures to combat antisemitism in the Labour Party