Upgrading to ATC SCM40 loudspeakers

[manicatel]

With the subject of ATC the discussions invariably comes down to passive and active speakers.
what are the advantages of the SCM40A SQ over the ATC SCM40 passive SQ and if there are any advantages are they worth proprtionally to the extra cost. Is the difference worth it?

In general, it is ( or should be) easy to demonstrate that there is a difference between two items.
The harder bit is to justify, or put a £price on that difference, eg whether it’s worth it.
That tends to come down to the buyer.
Differences that are “night & day” to some people, are simply not as important, fundamental or worth the price hike to others.

 

[Cereal Killer]

Wel


Well I was careful not to mention the (very long awaited) new tweeter as I have not heard it directly (except at subsequent shows). Perhaps the new tweeter has imbued the mid with a vibrancy not previously present. However, from my subjective experience the new tweeter extends the subjective ‘feel’ in a much more linear manner but doesn’t, ultimately, release the dome-mid from the slightly ‘shut in’ quality it exhibits.

Surely that would depend on where the crossover from MF to HF was and how they are interacting?

 

[Sean K]

....So my aproach would be what are the advantages of the SCM40A SQ over the ATC SCM40 passive SQ and if there are any advantages are they worth proprtionally to the extra cost. Is the difference worth it?

This makes perfect sense, but in terms of vfm, I would also ask how much capital I have tied up my existing power amp and how much would I have to shell out for 250w (?) stereo amp, let alone one designed specifically for my speakers?

If you think the sound quality alone justifies the price difference, you also have the bonus of a rather good tri amp thrown in for 'free' ahem.

 

[Tarzan]

Tony,

1. Get a home demo. If this dealer won’t, go to another!
2. ATC speakers are generally up there with the best, but in my experience come on song at a little above some people’s preferred levels. Not silly loud, but detached house loud
3. I’d go active if you can. Again, a home demo of the two options would be ideal, but perhaps reasonable to choose one or the other at the dealer then home dem your preferred option.
4. Don’t buy without a home demo.
5. Home demo.

This.

Good luck.

 

[antonio1]

It’s a strange ATC world
Plentiful mixes tried.
Naim nap 200 scm11,nice results to the point a speaker swap would not justified if not really silly money involved and a much ,much serious set-up in mind.
SN2 /latest scm19,somewhat organic but bright. Bad pairing.
Scm40a / 272, drew me in, no matter how the dealer would try promote his kudos c30
over them pairing, atc did music and the latter sounds.
Passives 20’s and Goldumnd. A joy for the ear.
My opinion, If you’re serious with them, just get a good dealer.
,

 

[John Phillips]

I have decided to test a pair of ATC SCM40, and have booked a demonstration next week. This model has excellent reviews all round and many recommendations here as well, and I was drawn to them based on that together with my perception of their relative value. But this is a big outlay for me and I want to gather as much advice as I can. I am worried that they might not sound right in my room (6mx4m, for various reasons speakers fire across not down) and that my Naim 250 wont be able to drive them properly. I currently have Naim Arriva which although I like them a lot (a somewhat controversial view) are now getting old and I know there is better out there. At a price.
What I was wondering is whether anyone has got close to buying these and backed off in favour of something else, and if so what your reasons?

Also if you have a pair how close to the wall do you have them?

Obviously the dealer is going to try to get me to take the active version at nearly twice the price. No doubt it is a big step above. But are there then other consequences to the set up which would likely lead to other expenditure? Are there any other considerations?

I listen mainly to rock and some classical.

I auditioned the ATC SCM40A on mainly classical music and some rock. To my ears they were excellent for both but I preferred the SCM50A and bought them (for firing lengthwise down a 6.7m by 3.6m room). Jack at the Audiobarn was very helpful - recommended.

I had briefly heard the SCM40 (passive) playing classical music driven by a 100 Watt amplifier. I was impressed and that led me to audition the active 40s and 50s. However the passive audition was only a brief listen.

A quick EPDR calculation shows the passive SCM40 presents a rather benign load (minima of about 3.2 Ω at 60 Hz and 3.9 Ω at 8 kHz if the spreadsheet is working) so I think your NAP250 will have no problem with the load.

However, I think a NAP250 produces 80 Watts into 8 Ω. I would be wary of that, as you write. In the SCM40A, the internal 150 Watt bass power amplifier is equivalent to maybe 190 Watts driving the passive version (taking into account loss in the crossover). 80 Watts may possibly go loud enough but I recommend you test this in a home demo. I do think 80 Watts will not allow the passive versions to reach their full potential.

 

[Fourlegs]

I auditioned the ATC SCM40A on mainly classical music and some rock. To my ears they were excellent for both but I preferred the SCM50A and bought them (for firing lengthwise down a 6.7m by 3.6m room). Jack at the Audiobarn was very helpful - recommended.

I had briefly heard the SCM40 (passive) playing classical music driven by a 100 Watt amplifier. I was impressed and that led me to audition the active 40s and 50s. However the passive audition was only a brief listen.

A quick EPDR calculation shows the passive SCM40 presents a rather benign load (minima of about 3.2 Ω at 60 Hz and 3.9 Ω at 8 kHz if the spreadsheet is working) so I think your NAP250 will have no problem with the load.

However, I think a NAP250 produces 80 Watts into 8 Ω. I would be wary of that, as you write. In the SCM40A, the internal 150 Watt bass power amplifier is equivalent to maybe 190 Watts driving the passive version (taking into account loss in the crossover). 80 Watts may possibly go loud enough but I recommend you test this in a home demo. I do think 80 Watts will not allow the passive versions to reach their full potential.

Oh, wow, congratulations. That cannot be a bad decision.

I have the 40 actives and also a pair of rosewood 150 actives that have just come back from the factory from getting updated to current spec.

It will be interesting to hear what xlr cable you decide on. I have found subtle but ckear differences.

 

[Neil Gilbert]

[QUOTE="Fourlegs,
I have the 40 actives and also a pair of rosewood 150 actives that have just come back from the factory from getting updated to current spec.[/QUOTE]

Hi

How would you compare the 40s and 150s

Fancy trying active 50s or 100s but concerned about room size

Room is 5m x 4m but is a dedicated room
Thanks

 

[YNWOAN]

Surely that would depend on where the crossover from MF to HF was and how they are interacting?

Not necessarily.

 

[johnhunt]

[QUOTE="Fourlegs,
I have the 40 actives and also a pair of rosewood 150 actives that have just come back from the factory from getting updated to current spec.

Hi

How would you compare the 40s and 150s

Fancy trying active 50s or 100s but concerned about room size

Room is 5m x 4m but is a dedicated room
Thanks[/QUOTE]
100s would work fine a room that size

 

[Neil Gilbert]

Thanks for that

 

[evand]

When I bought my 100ASLT’s I’d been considering the 150’s. My room was 7m x 5m. ATC told me not to go bigger than the 100’s in a room that size.

 

[Fourlegs]

When I bought my 100ASLT’s I’d been considering the 150’s. My room was 7m x 5m. ATC told me not to go bigger than the 100’s in a room that size.

Agreed but my 150's popped up at a ridiculously attractive price that meant that I couldn't ignore them.

 

[IanmacPFM]

Have used ATC SCM 40 passives for some years. The best Amps Ive used with them are Hypex N Cores, placed immediately behind the speakers with very short speaker cables, Amps fed balanced from my DAC 14 M away.
The very low output impedance of the N Core ensures excellent damping.
Thought about Actives but put off by the price and other issues when used in a domestic environment.

 

[Paul Burke]

Have used ATC SCM 40 passives for some years. The best Amps Ive used with them are Hypex N Cores, placed immediately behind the speakers with very short speaker cables, Amps fed balanced from my DAC 14 M away.
The very low output impedance of the N Core ensures excellent damping.
Thought about Actives but put off by the price and other issues when used in a domestic environment.

I use the ncores, they’re very good. A router and the fusion ncore plates would be a good upgrade

Will be trying the fusions soon myself

 

[Whaleblue]

“Fancy trying active 50s or 100s but concerned about room size

Room is 5m x 4m but is a dedicated room”

“100s would work fine a room that size”

Just a follow up POV on @Neil Gilbert ’s question...

I had 50s in a room 4.2m by 3.1m, and they were ultimately simply too much in that space. 5m by 4m might well be OK for 50s, but I wonder whether 100s might be a step too far?

I’d certainly dem in place

 

[johnhunt]

“Fancy trying active 50s or 100s but concerned about room size

Room is 5m x 4m but is a dedicated room”

“100s would work fine a room that size”

Just a follow up POV on @Neil Gilbert ’s question...

I had 50s in a room 4.2m by 3.1m, and they were ultimately simply too much in that space. 5m by 4m might well be OK for 50s, but I wonder whether 100s might be a step too far?

I’d certainly dem in place

Sure a dem is always a good idea although I didn’t bother. Just to be clear have 100s in a room certainly no bigger or not much bigger than 4 *5 and theY work fine. I’d have to measure to be sure . Visually they are big but you get used to it. I love mine , and if a pair of 150s came up cheap I’d try them too.

 

[Patu]

Only thing that has bothered me slightly with the active 40's is that they don't have standby mode. The speakers are either on with full power consumption (which is 40W per speaker when idle) or then you need to switch them off from behind the speaker, which is little bit inconvenient. Also the amplifier modules run quite hot and summer is coming. My apartment gets very hot during summertime so I prefer not to have any idle equipment heating it up even more. I asked about this from ATC and they recommended to switch the speakers off if not used for ~8 hours or more. I've been switching them off in the evening if I have workday coming up but on the weekends I've kept them always on. I've also considered trying to add apple homekit controlled power switches on my power strip (Wireworld Matrix v2). I'm just worried if these would have negative effect on sound quality. Do you guys keep your active ATC's always on?

 

[Fourlegs]

Only thing that has bothered me slightly with the active 40's is that they don't have standby mode. The speakers are either on with full power consumption (which is 40W per speaker when idle) or then you need to switch them off from behind the speaker, which is little bit inconvenient. Also the amplifier modules run quite hot and summer is coming. My apartment gets very hot during summertime so I prefer not to have any idle equipment heating it up even more. I asked about this from ATC and they recommended to switch the speakers off if not used for ~8 hours or more. I've been switching them off in the evening if I have workday coming up but on the weekends I've kept them always on. I've also considered trying to add apple homekit controlled power switches on my power strip (Wireworld Matrix v2). I'm just worried if these would have negative effect on sound quality. Do you guys keep your active ATC's always on?

I used to keep my active ATCs always on (the power consumption and heat is minuscule compared to the 845 valve amps - 600w that I used to have). However I now switch them off at night using remote controlled power socket adapters.

 

[Whaleblue]

Only thing that has bothered me slightly with the active 40's is that they don't have standby mode. The speakers are either on with full power consumption (which is 40W per speaker when idle) or then you need to switch them off from behind the speaker, which is little bit inconvenient. Also the amplifier modules run quite hot and summer is coming. My apartment gets very hot during summertime so I prefer not to have any idle equipment heating it up even more. I asked about this from ATC and they recommended to switch the speakers off if not used for ~8 hours or more. I've been switching them off in the evening if I have workday coming up but on the weekends I've kept them always on. I've also considered trying to add apple homekit controlled power switches on my power strip (Wireworld Matrix v2). I'm just worried if these would have negative effect on sound quality. Do you guys keep your active ATC's always on?

I turned mine off every evening once I knew I’d finished listening. From an ecological perspective it would be criminal not to.

I really don’t imagine have a remote controlled power socket would impact sound quality - I’m assuming the remote aspect doesn’t put anything in the path of the current supplied from such a switch. Hopefully someone knowledgeable will confirm?