advertisement


United States of Europe??

eternumviti said:
I suspect the the beginning of the EU (Maastricht) was also the beginning of the end of the thing, but the path is inevitably convoluted, and will continue to be so (unless it isn't). There's a great deal invested in the project.



I'm not sure that the international 'community' shares your definition of China's territorial waters, but then I accept that you're a rollover kind of guy.

Presumably you're also fairly relaxed about the drowning ratio on the dinghy crossings. I mean what's the loss of a couple or three dozen when 25,000 odd have made it, eh?
Click to expand...
I think he also defines UK as a failed state? He should be writing for the Star or something similar. He is a variant of gammon, like a yellowing green version perhaps?
 
Brian said:
Yes, as long as they are out of France it’s a success for the French. They could always have a go at stopping these desperate people attempting such a dangerous voyage to horrible England, but of course, that means they would still be in France and that can’t be right.
Click to expand...
The mayor of Calais is quite clear in his head that it should not be his probem, it's all the UK's fault.
 
PsB said:
Maybe you can prime the pump with your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Personally, sceptical but I am not sure. I'm hoping to see one more member state leave in the next 5 years too. This idea could trigger it. In that case, at least carrying on with serious talks about it would be a good thing.

I know enough people in Strasbourg on massive salaries doing not much and not even paying income tax. This would only create more jobs like that. So on that side, it's not good.
 
richardg said:
The mayor of Calais is quite clear in his head that it should not be his probem, it's all the UK's fault.
Click to expand...

So nothing at all to do with a borderless EU then, across which anyone that's in can travel with impunity.

Apart from the occasional beasting by Hungarian, Austrian and French policemen, that is.
 
eternumviti said:
Yes, the inevitably twisted response. The issue of illegal channel crossings has been about for many years and many governments but its been driven to this by the success of the security arrangements at the Channel ports, and by the resourcefulness and ruthlessness of the traffickers.

The bizarre thing about it is that there is an element on the Liberal left, one almost certainly synonymous with the more determined factions of continuity remain, that sees this crisis as being somehow acceptable, probably because it puts this hated government in such an intractable place, and shines a bright light on its inadequacies, both perceived and actual.
Click to expand...
Surely, true "remainers" must view the crisis as totally unacceptable and unnecessary. It would clearly be a different type of crisis had the UK stayed inside the EU and maybe even, shudder, joined Schengen. The Tory government, with its spine stiffened by its ERG component and UKIP fellow travellers, is in an intractable place exactly because of its propaganda and choices made at each step of the way: posters of immigrant hordes, Turks at the gates, red lines, hard Brexit, take back control, irritate the neighbours, etc.
 
eternumviti said:
Apart from the fact that I doubt the consulate would have the capacity to process an additional 25,000 applications a year, why do you think this is?

I would add that it doesn't address the question of what would happen to the applicants whilst their applications are being processed. I've been in the Paris consulate, and, though its not tiny, it definitely doesn't have 25,000 bedrooms.
Click to expand...
If the Consulate people are diligent, that's 500 per week, not insurmountable I would have thought if the processing was quick and efficient. Rent out a few cheap hotels in the vicinity (you don't need one room per refugee for a whole year) and you're done. Which is what the Home Office has been doing anyway when these people get to Britain.
 
richardg said:
Personally, sceptical but I am not sure. I'm hoping to see one more member state leave in the next 5 years too. This idea could trigger it. In that case, at least carrying on with serious talks about it would be a good thing.

I know enough people in Strasbourg on massive salaries doing not much and not even paying income tax. This would only create more jobs like that. So on that side, it's not good.
Click to expand...
Why do you want to see additional member states leave? Just curious.
 
I think that the problem would be intractable with or without Brexit, or with or without the current government. The Dublin arrangement has clearly long collapsed and would have made no practical difference.

A Corbyn government, had it opened the borders, would have lasted one term, and undoubtedly sparked a fire that would have been a great deal less pretty than even this.

The UK voter has made it repeatedly clear that they want the government to be in control of the borders, and for those borders to be properly controlled.
 
PsB said:
Why do you want to see additional member states leave? Just curious.
Click to expand...
Because it is a protectionist racket on an international scale that should be dimsantled.

Who on the inside would want that to happen? The French nationals that work for it and associated organisations here pay no income tax. But the rest of us do. A minority pay the EU community tax, at a lower rate than the national tax. But the couple of people I know say they pay nothing.
 
PsB said:
If the Consulate people are diligent, that's 500 per week, not insurmountable I would have thought if the processing was quick and efficient. Rent out a few cheap hotels in the vicinity (you don't need one room per refugee for a whole year) and you're done. Which is what the Home Office has been doing anyway when these people get to Britain.
Click to expand...

Sure, but the fact is that once they're here, under current legislation it is all but impossible to remove them, even if their applications are refused. Which is why they are coming over in boats.

In the absence of a reform of immigration legislation (and, I'm afraid, the Human Rights Act) the processing will have to be offshored.

500 applications a week is, incidentally, an enormous workload under any circumstances, given the complexity of background checks required. My better half works in social services conducting legal protocols, filling out and back checking legal forms around cognition, consent and care, and the complexity is exhaustive, and exhausting. She can manage one to maybe three a day, if it goes smoothly.
 
There's nothing I'd like more re EU than for it to become a European Federation, with a European army etc and all countries under central European government. All sovereignty should cease to exist beyond European sovereignty.
I welcome the annexation of this sad pissy little island by the USE. Bring it on! The end of tories, FPTP, the royal family, the lords, the aristocracy etc etc... wonderful!
 
Spake like a true revolutionary Marxist.

Shame the EU is neoliberal to its bones, but hey, just details.

Up the Proletariat!
 
SteveS1 said:
Yes wouldn't it be convenient if we avoided taking our share by using the channel to force France to take them instead. The Labour Faragist speaks.
Click to expand...
No, it wouldn’t be convenient, we should take our share.

‘Labour Faragist’ is a typically needless remark from you. I have no interest in Farage and have never supported him. I know you find truth difficult to accept when it doesn’t fit your agenda but give it a try and cut it out.
 
eternumviti said:
Spake like a true revolutionary Marxist.

Shame the EU is neoliberal to its bones, but hey, just details.

Up the Proletariat!
Click to expand...

Right. If anyone thinks the key EU people are particularly friendly, consider this. The right wing spiv that is Michel Barnier, chief Brexit negotiator, is back where he wants to be. Running for president in France he says he wants to “restore the authority of the state as well as limit and have control over immigration."

How's he going to do the second bit? Just cook the books I guess.

I'm crossing the border if any of that goes on. Shame, I don't speak any German.
 
Brian said:
No, it wouldn’t be convenient, we should take our share.

‘Labour Faragist’ is a typically needless remark from you. I have no interest in Farage and have never supported him. I know you find truth difficult to accept when it doesn’t fit your agenda but give it a try and cut it out.
Click to expand...

You cut out the malignant trolling by playing all sides while not declaring your own position and I'll happily oblige.
 
Thinking about new walking shoes. On my second pair of OnRunning waterproof trail running shoes. They are immensely comfortable and very supportive in my ankle region. But they are not made for urban walking, and my constant use on hard surfaces means they wear through quite quickly. Tried some Meindl walking shoes yesterday, seemed OK, but the shop didn't have my size. Cotswold Outdoors in Brighton were excellent in measuring my feet and doing gait analysis on a treadmill. They recommended the Meindl and some Merrells....hmmm something to think about
 
eternumviti said:
Sure, but the fact is that once they're here, under current legislation it is all but impossible to remove them, even if their applications are refused. Which is why they are coming over in boats.

In the absence of a reform of immigration legislation (and, I'm afraid, the Human Rights Act) the processing will have to be offshored.
Click to expand...
What does that mean, "will have to be offshored"? Offshored to whom, where, and why? Why is a sovereign country that has just gone through a lot of pain and trouble to "take back control" so helpless that it has to outsource its own immigration controls to some third party? Do you see other global, world-beating nations like the US or China do this? The whole thing is bizarre.
eternumviti said:
500 applications a week is, incidentally, an enormous workload under any circumstances, given the complexity of background checks required. My better half works in social services conducting legal protocols, filling out and back checking legal forms around cognition, consent and care, and the complexity is exhaustive, and exhausting. She can manage one to maybe three a day, if it goes smoothly.
Click to expand...
500 per week assumes they all show up to ask for visas/refugee status, which we know won't happen. Assume only half do so (probably a high estimate), you're down to 50 per day. A staff of 20-50 persons should be able to manage it. That's one medium-size office somewhere. Surely something HMG could come up with, if it really wanted to.
 
PsB said:
500 per week assumes they all show up to ask for visas/refugee status, which we know won't happen. Assume only half do so (probably a high estimate), you're down to 50 per day. A staff of 20-50 persons should be able to manage it. That's one medium-size office somewhere. Surely something HMG could come up with, if it really wanted to.
Click to expand...

Lot of finger in the air piffle there, PSB. You are on form today!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top