United States of Europe??

[FrancisClement]

Attempts to partition Poland?!?
It seems you have bought in fully to the crazy Kaczynski narrative, complete with plane crash caused by those dastardly communist fogs in Russia, so I won't be arguing this any further.

Sorry about the early start but just flow back to Spain. I understand your position but I do have the right of reply. The plane crash was blamed on the pilot after all of the evidence including the black boxes were shipped to Moscow when Putin announced that he was taking personal charge of the investigation. The crash happened in Bialorus and it was a Polish owned plane, although it had just been renovated by Russia. Putin personally in change, does that not ring any alarm bells?????????

The Kaczynskis are/were never diplomatic and that is a fault along with the normal Polish stubbornness and their wholesale rejection of LBGT but they were both justifiable thorns in the side of Putin and Tusk on many issues.

FF

 

[PsB]

Sorry about the early start but just flow back to Spain. I understand your position but I do have the right of reply.

Yes of course, and thank you for your response.

The plane crash was blamed on the pilot after all of the evidence including the black boxes were shipped to Moscow when Putin announced that he was taking personal charge of the investigation. The crash happened in Bialorus and it was a Polish owned plane, although it had just been renovated by Russia. Putin personally in change, does that not ring any alarm bells?????????

No, the crash happened at Smolensk airport, which is well within Russia, so nothing to do with Belarus: it is normal for the Russians to have led the investigation, in conjunction with a large Polish team that generally agreed with the main conclusions. I re-read the summary of the investigation yesterday, and it is a catalogue of errors: multiple pilot errors error, but also navigator error, some faulty equipment at Smolensk airport, trees too close to the runway... also severe gaps in the flight planning and the training of the crew, to the point the whole unit was dissolved by the Polish airforce after the crash. The one thing you don't find is any evidence to support the lunatic conspiracy theories that mushroomed on the Polish side after PiS came back to power: bombs detonating just before the plane hit the tree, etc. Also, as some of the instruments in the plane were Polish or US-made, they were investigated outside Russia (in Poland and the US).
The WIkipedia article is fairly comprehensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster

The Kaczynskis are/were never diplomatic and that is a fault along with the normal Polish stubbornness and their wholesale rejection of LBGT but they were both justifiable thorns in the side of Putin and Tusk on many issues.
FF

That doesn't justify peddling conspiracy theories. FWIW Putin seems to have behaved very correctly in the aftermath.

 

[FrancisClement]

Thanks for the heads up.

You missed the fact that the ground visual navigation aids on 10 April 2010 were not effective. According to the Polish report, the radar was unstable and swung within ±10%.[6] From the photographic documentation of the Polish committee, it appears that the origin of components of the Smolensk North lighting system was unknown. This was not the Luch-2MU system as the Russians stated. How did this happen as the earlier flight containing had no problems.

Interesting that Tusk was PM at the time they accepted the Russian explanation.

 

[PsB]

Thanks for the heads up.

You missed the fact that the ground visual navigation aids on 10 April 2010 were not effective. According to the Polish report, the radar was unstable and swung within ±10%.[6] From the photographic documentation of the Polish committee, it appears that the origin of components of the Smolensk North lighting system was unknown. This was not the Luch-2MU system as the Russians stated. How did this happen as the earlier flight containing had no problems.

I didn't miss it - what do you think I meant by "some faulty equipment at Smolensk airport"? The earlier flight had no problems because the weather wasn't as atrocious.

Interesting that Tusk was PM at the time they accepted the Russian explanation.

So you think Tusk as a crypto-communist was in on the dastardly plot? This is bonkers. Putin and Tusk don't like each other. They are not fellow travellers: Tusk is pro-EU, Putin is anti-EU and dreams of turning the clock back to the glory days of the old Comecon. Only in the grief-stricken mind of a paranoid chap like Kaczynski could this tragedy turn into a 10-year crusade to reverse the bleeding obvious. So no, it's not interesting. Pope John Paul II could have been in power in PL, the Polish government would still have accepted the results of a thorough international investigation, one their own investigators participated in and which resulted in severe domestic sanctions against the PL air force personnel involved in the disaster.

 

[FrancisClement]

This article is interesting, it is originally a French investigation and not a Polish invention. https://www.poloniainstitute.net/cu...the-cjeu-the-european-commission-and-the-epp/

Even so it is likely to be swept under the carpet.

FF

 

[eternumviti]

The European Commission bent?

Never!

 

[PsB]

This article is interesting, it is originally a French investigation and not a Polish invention. https://www.poloniainstitute.net/cu...the-cjeu-the-european-commission-and-the-epp/

Even so it is likely to be swept under the carpet.

FF

Thanks for flagging this up. I'd missed the Libération articles (not a paper I usually read). Quatremer is a respected journalist who was instrumental in claiming the scalps of the Santer commission and Martin Selmayr, so he has form.