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Ukraine

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[email protected] said:
CNN is speaking not me
Half of Russians say it would be right to use military force to keep Ukraine out of NATO — https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2022/02/europe/russia-ukraine-crisis-poll-intl/

If you ask me. Everyone is shocked and worried. But protest is rather small like 10000-20000 people in 15 mln Moscow. There are a lot of reason.
Sociality is polarised. There is small and loud group of anti-war group. Then pretty large like 50% who actively supports. And like 30-40% who quietly keep the silence (yet).
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If 50% of Russians believe that NATO represents an existential threat to Russia then the countries that make up NATO have a problem.I’d have thought the solution to that problem would be bilateral arms reduction negotiations and guarantees of neutrality and security for Ukraine if that was the major issue.
Unfortunately what’s happened is that Russia has realised NATO countries’ worst fears- by invading a sovereign European country and depriving the population of their choice of economic and security alliances then threatening existing NATO member states that if they don’t leave their defensive alliance, he will invade them too.

It defies logic and will have the effect of driving Finland and Sweden into NATO for protection. It’s this recourse to military invasion and further threats of invasion that has astounded people here and that’s before his threat to use nuclear weapons.
 
The friend of mine write it today (Google translated)


Sooner or later, the military conflict will end, when this happens, the rightness of one of the parties on three key indicators will inevitably and inevitably become obvious:

Attitude to the civilian population

Attitude to enemy prisoners

Attitude to the cultural symbols of the enemy

Attitude to the soldier's mother

Now you can watch any videos, write any nasty things, spread memasics and fakes, participate in propaganda, blame, be ashamed, dance with likes over bodies, curse, dehumanize.

In history, those who have preserved a human attitude in a military conflict will remain right. The roots of our civilization are in ancient archetypes and myths. In their lessons and logic. The ancient gods, it was all clear. Sacred animals of Ares/Mars, the god of war, was considered a wolf, a horse, a bull and a woodpecker. With the first three, everything is clear, there is cruelty, speed, strength, and you can trace the woodpeckers of war on social networks around you.

You know what the Field of Mars is - a symbol of valor. The warriors of Mars have no right to fight in their city, a tradition to reduce the destruction and casualties among the civilian population. Warriors bypass cities and walk through fields and roads. The warriors of Mars meet the enemy on the approaches, in the fields, and even after losing the battle, they remain heroes in history, the war has always been won not by cruelty, but by humanity at the moment of choosing between. There is always a choice.

Centuries have changed the war, made it devoid of any nobility and empathy, dehumanized. Woodpeckers fly to the cities to knock curses on social networks with their beaks, throw civilians into battle, mock prisoners, desecrate banners, insult mothers. The woodpeckers of Mars are vile birds of information warfare.

Sooner or later, the military conflict will end, the blood will go into the black soil, when it happens, inevitably and inevitably - we will all be different. The woodpeckers of war will stop beating their stupid heads against the keyboards the very last. The truth will not be in the swearing of frightened politicians, the delirium of war propagandists and stupid, cruel orders, but on the side of those who called for attentive attitude to the civilian population, prisoners of the enemy, symbols of the enemy's culture, respect for the soldier's mother. Just think about it and decide for yourself what and how to do it.

Sooner or later, the military conflict will end — what will remain of our human appearance and dignity, I do not know, but it is important for me to tell you about it. There will be no comments.
 
kensalriser said:
It's already been pointed out that what's been reported is not against the Geneva Convention. Is there any evidence that Russian POWs have been mistreated? I'm still wondering why you're so keen to find ways to bash Ukraine (and by so doing, supporting Putin's aggression). And if you want to talk racism whataboutery, let's not forget the charming people who went to refugee hostels in the UK to intimidate the occupants. Nothing, but nothing, excuses this war.
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Its been pointed out that these aren't just images of POWs on news media as permitted under the Convention it's the involvement of the interior ministry iof the detaining power exploiting them that makes a contravention of the Convention pretty likely.
Who is excusing this war? Not me.
What aspects of this conflict are in your eyes permissible to raise and discuss? please issue a list.
Your lack of empathy for black foreign nationals being denied an escape route out of Ukraine at the hands of Polish(note Polish) border officials and in some cases armed militiamen says far more about you than me.
I also feel Ukraine refugees who do escape should be offered safe haven in the UK and it is shameful the UK has kept the visa requirements in place- or does by pointing that out also I'm undermining western solidarity ergo I must support Putin?
Stop posting smears, it's offensive bollocks that is an attempt to close down discussion.
 
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[email protected] said:
For last three days Facebook, Instagram and Google adv network are bombarding all of Russian with fake and ugly advertising like «10000 Russian Soldiers were killed in Ukraine», «You will lost all your money after SWIFT ban». You can see up to 20-50 adv from fake account. Guess who pay for it. It works against expectations of advertiser.
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Obviously I can't comment, except to say that facebook in the UK also has many Russian and allied posters spreading fakery and bizarre stuff.

we have many alternative media as Meduza.io, Voice of Moscow with open and liberal coverage.
So I don’t think that only one viewpoint is a problem for people from 18 to 50 age (they almost all have mobile phones).
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That is good to hear..but it's a bit pointless if those people are prevented from using their knowledge/information to apply pressure on Putin by open protest.

[email protected] said:
In history, those who have preserved a human attitude in a military conflict will remain right
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I suppose so,within a conflict, but surely Putin forefeited any claim to being 'right', the moment he decided to attack a peaceful neighbour, without provocation?
 
TheDecameron said:
If 50% of Russians believe that NATO represents an existential threat to Russia then the countries that make up NATO have a problem.
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The question is why 50% of Russians believe that...assuming they actually do so. NATO is a defensive organisation which has NEVER invaded one inch of former Soviet or current Russian territory, nor even threatened to do so.

Futhermore, all members of NATO are Democratic states which joined NATO out of choice. None as far as I know have expressed a desire to leave NATO, but they are free to do so if they so wish.

As my old Uni Lecturers would have said: 'Compare and contrast that with the experience of Russia and all former Soviet Block 'republics'.
 
Putinus is an old man thinking about his petro state and possible invasion from western Europe via Polish low lands. He will not give up a fight for Ukraine so easily I am afraid. He needs to die, and new leaders needs to turn Russia into modern country with modern economy, not so dependent from oil and gas exports. Otherwise the conflict will escalate.

 
Sure, this was a barbed comment towards people who, blinded by ideology, rather than blame Putin for unprovoked agression have blamed the EU and NATO.
 
Any other wheat growers here? Looks like our crop will be worth more this year, but the price of fertiliser might go through the roof.

I am shit scared of the maniac Putin having his finger on the button. I suspect the Ukrainian resistance is being overstated for propaganda purposes, that heavy artillery will start raining down on Kiev and Khargov and that Putin will have an interminable battle of occupation on his hands. What a deluded autocratic narcissist might do under these circumstances should be of concern to everyone everywhere.
 
A young man from Tomsk was interviewed on Danish Radio P1 this morning and his understanding of Putin was that he pays his way to loyalty rather than commanding it by example. So crippling Putin and his friends' ability to access their funds is not a bad way to get at Putin.

EDIT: To [email protected].
I understand the difficult situation you are in. Take care! Even though I have access to a lot of sources here about the Russian war in Ukraine, it is very difficult to make sure that what I read and view is the truth.
 
While the Russians will capture Kyiv, the British need to remember how they captured and hold Northern Ireland by force.
 
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