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Ukraine

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Putin's 'logic', might make more sense if he could demonstrate that he leads a democratic country whose people are marching cheerfully towards the sunlit uplands of a bright new freedom after 70 years of dark soviet oppression. Also, as far as I'm aware, NATO has never threatened to invade, or interfere with, Russia, as it is a defensive alliance, not a threat. But of course he is actually precariously ruling a Gangster state which ruthlessly suppresses anything resembling democracy by either killing opponents, or imprisoning them on false charges made up by his very not independent judiciary. This latter point is dangerously relevant here as the Tories quietly push through legislation to prevent the Law from requiring Govt to act legally.

The other thing I'm wondering about is just how much of Putin's posturing is for home consumption, and how much real support he has at home. How happy are his troops, and more to the point, their Generals, at being put into a potentially bloody war? Who are Putin's enemies at home? Not the public detractors who get locked up..but those within the secret power groupings which have dominated Russia since the revolution?
 
myles said:
I dread to mention this but I will; Croatia to withdraw troops from potential NATO effort in Ukraine crisis.....if North Macedonian troops are involved.
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I don’t think they are linked.
If military action occurs N Macedonia will send troops and Croatia will withdraw their troops separately.
 
Nero said:
Well, do you really think Putin will back away if we promise not to allow Ukraine to accede to NATO? Should not Ukraine be allowed to do what they want as an autonomous state?
Putin is simply 'defending' the rights of 'true indigenous Russians' living in Ukraine, and helped out a few of them by annexing Crimea. It's not a good subtext to promises about future incursions.
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I have wondered for a while whether there could be some sort of 'accommodation' in NATO for the 'buffer' states on the Russia/EU border. A bit like the old Warsaw Pact states (which, I notice, are now pretty much all subsumed into the EU). I can understand Russia's sensitivity over having NATO states on its western border, especially having lost the Warsaw Pact buffer, and hence it's determination not to permit Ukraine to join NATO and lose its access to warm water ports. Not saying I agree with it, but I can understand it.

So perhaps there ought to be some sort of attempt at an entente of some kind. NATO could offer Ukraine some sort of 'semi-detached' arrangement which Russia found acceptable. Somewhat short of full NATO membership, and an accommodation for both sides' interests and concerns. Similarly Belarus, perhaps, though I know Ukraine is the priority for Russia due to the Black Sea coast.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Similarly Belarus, perhaps, though I know Ukraine is the priority for Russia due to the Black Sea coast.
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A change of leadership, already attempted at some cost recently, would be needed before any links with the west are entertained. Currently, it's probably a more oppressive state than Russia, and certainly in the Russian camp, with considerable Russian troop numbers in its territory.
 
Boris doesn’t get his rescheduled call to Putin. Global leader in irrelevance. Maybe Truss can go over and give them covid.
 
I’m imagining Putin talking to Boris tomorrow:

“Boris, I gave you Brexit and the last election, should I now invade Ukraine to divert your problems at home?”
 
Tony L said:
A wonderful new portrait of Liz Truss from Wefail.art (Twitter).
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Hehehe.

I'm loving this one...

FLUJ8yIXwAEAe4U
 
Why aren’t we saying that if they invade we nuke Russia?
Obviously they will nuke us back and it will be the end of Northern Europe, at the least, but we can draw comfort from the fact it was Russia’s fault.:p

What’s the point of a nuclear deterrent otherwise?:rolleyes:
 
But if Russia annexes Ukraine and incorporates it back into Russia without consequence, will they then say that Poland is now right on their border and as a NATO member that is not acceptable and so they invade and annexe Poland.
And then from Poland they say Germany can’t be on their border as a NATO member, etc, etc.
Nuke them now is the best option - or hopefully the US black military arm has some mega alien tech derived space weapon that can eliminate the Russkies in an instant.:D
 
I think the writing is on the wall, they saw we didn't do anything about Crimea so unlikely to do anything other than "sanctions" this time.

I put sanctions in quotes because whenever they're used as a threat the aggressor doesn't seem to give two f**ks about them.
 
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