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Ukraine V

Complicated way to force a vote apparently, appears it might be a route to forcing the aid through.

Voting can start March 1st, hopefully a few of the non Trump Repubs grow a pair.


 
What is currently happening in Ukraine is tragic. The interest of the West is that Ukraine prevails, but somehow populist politics and dissembling have led to a situation where Ukraine has been promised all the aid it needs and still has no modern aircraft and insufficient ammunition.

Thus Ukrainian forces look to battlefield defeat, having largely held the line till now.

If the Russians break through, which seems more than just a possibility, then Ukraine is done for and the Russia military will move to the Polish border.

Heaven forfend what that would lead to, though it seems the Polish have been preparing for this eventuality for some time as have the Baltic States. I assume that Finland and Sweden are equally prepared, though I doubt Hungary under Orban would resist a Russian take over more than a token loss of a few border guards.

The problem is that to correct this supply situation will take months to recover, by which time the Ukraine army will be in bits and no amount of military materiel will be useful.

Gloomy, and I really hope that I am wrong. The Ukrainians deserved better. Sacrificed again as in 2014 when the West tacitly acquiesced in the Russian take-over of Crimea and so on.

Regards from George
 
lovely news from CIA that most of PFM will ignore

www.nytimes.com

The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia. A C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases has been constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border.
 
I won't ignore the report. I applaud the headline. You seem to think it some sort of scandal or something. Why should US/Ukrainian intelligence cooperation against Russian aggression be scandalous?

I think the Times is treading close to aiding the Russians by publishing this report. You can't talk around sensitive matters without risk of revealing information of use to other side.
 
anubisgrau said:
lovely news from CIA that most of PFM will ignore

www.nytimes.com

The Spy War: How the C.I.A. Secretly Helps Ukraine Fight Putin

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com

For more than a decade, the United States has nurtured a secret intelligence partnership with Ukraine that is now critical for both countries in countering Russia. A C.I.A.-supported network of spy bases has been constructed in the past eight years that includes 12 secret locations along the Russian border.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what your point is. Isn’t this a good thing? Apart from the way Russia can view it? It exposes the mess of US politics though, why fund all this and not supply ammo on time?
 
What I don't understand is this. If Europe has the money and the USA the weaponry, why doesn't Europe simply put in a very large order for US weaponry and simply pass it on? Surely Congress can't block a beneficial purely commercial transaction.
 
tones said:
What I don't understand is this. If Europe has the money and the USA the weaponry, why doesn't Europe simply put in a very large order for US weaponry and simply pass it on? Surely Congress can't block a beneficial purely commercial transaction.
Click to expand...
Good question. The answer used to be that a few countries, France being the biggest, resisted purchasing any ammunition for Ukraine from outside the EU, saying the all the funds allocated needs to be spent on building up the capacity for ammunition production in the EU.

Sensible .. during peacetime. Now though, Ukraine doesn't have the time and EU countries do not have the stockpiles for this to work.

However this is old news, the Czech Republic has been spending time finding out what is actually availble to buy and France is also changing their opinion. From https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...-fund-ammunition-supplies-ukraine-2024-02-23/
The Czechs, he said, had found 500,000 rounds of 155-calibre ammunition and 300,000 rounds of 122-calibre which could be delivered in weeks if funding was secured. He did not disclose the source or say how much they would cost.
Click to expand...

From https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/france-...plan-to-buy-non-eu-ammo-for-ukraine-1.2039541
France and other nations have resisted using European Union funds to buy ammunition outside the bloc, with Paris urging that money to be spent instead on developing the EU’s own industries.
Click to expand...
but now
France and the Netherlands backed a plan to buy ammunition outside Europe to get much-needed military equipment to Ukraine faster, with a proposal expected in early March.
Click to expand...
 
Jubal said:
I am not sure what your point is. Isn’t this a good thing? Apart from the way Russia can view it? It exposes the mess of US politics though, why fund all this and not supply ammo on time?
Click to expand...

i can't see anything good about cia operating along the russian border and then letting russia destroy such a huge parts of ukraine territory. i was heavily criticized here 2 years ago when i said this war can be ended only with nato troops on red square. but ukrainian lives are cheaper, actually they cost nothing.
 
anubisgrau said:
i can't see anything good about cia operating along the russian border and then letting russia destroy such a huge parts of ukraine territory. i was heavily criticized here 2 years ago when i said this war can be ended only with nato troops on red square. but ukrainian lives are cheaper, actually they cost nothing.
Click to expand...
Russia needs to end its illegal occupation and return to its internationally recognised borders. Reparations can be discussed later.
 
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DonQuixote99 said:
I won't ignore the report. I applaud the headline. You seem to think it some sort of scandal or something. Why should US/Ukrainian intelligence cooperation against Russian aggression be scandalous?

I think the Times is treading close to aiding the Russians by publishing this report. You can't talk around sensitive matters without risk of revealing information of use to other side.
Click to expand...

The article also makes it clear, that once again, just like in the NATO expansion story, it's actually eastern Europeran countries pulling in the U.S for their protection, rather than the pro-Russian narrative that it's actuallty the US pushing.

But the Times investigation found that Mr. Putin and his advisers misread a critical dynamic. The C.I.A. didn’t push its way into Ukraine. U.S. officials were often reluctant to fully engage, fearing that Ukrainian officials could not be trusted, and worrying about provoking the Kremlin.

Yet a tight circle of Ukrainian intelligence officials assiduously courted the C.I.A. and gradually made themselves vital to the Americans. In 2015, Gen. Valeriy Kondratiuk, then Ukraine’s head of military intelligence, arrived at a meeting with the C.I.A.’s deputy station chief and without warning handed over a stack of top-secret files.
Click to expand...
 
Despite the dictatorial hold on the media, and, ergo, the general Russian populace's misguided thinking, I'm surprised that the more educated (those which are left in residence) cannot see the futility and counter-intuitiveness of one man's anachronistic empire-building. In these days of global information access, I'd've expected some more concentrated opposition. The parallel of Putin's 'law enforcement' with the Gestapo and SS is too obvious to ignore.
 
Chefren said:
The article also makes it clear, that once again, just like in the NATO expansion story, it's actually eastern Europeran countries pulling in the U.S for their protection, rather than the pro-Russian narrative that it's actuallty the US pushing.
Click to expand...

what came first - in this case - is it chicken or egg.
 
anubisgrau said:
what came first - in this case - is it chicken or egg.
Click to expand...
If we read the article you linked, it's pretty clear. first we have the 2014 events that started off the war between Russia and Ukraine, after Russia captured Crimea and then did their usual "breakaway state" invasion-in-all-but-name attack in the Donbass.

Then Ukraine, looking for support from the west to prepare for when the Russians might come in full force to finish the job, convinced the CIA that they had something to gain from each other. They succeeded, and a partnership was built based on sharing intelligence information on Russia.

In 2022, it turned out that the years of preparation and cooperation ended up paying off hugely for Ukraine, they have benefited greatly from especially US intelligence (military and otherwise) during the current kinetic (shooting) phase of the war.

--

I am guessing you are alluding to pre-2014 events, but I hope it's not the tired and worn-out narrative that Ukranians didn't want to align themselves away from Russia and more towards the West, but that this is all a US plot carried out by the CIA. Somehow.
 
ZDF just ran this - no proper translation on their site yet. A guy on KoS has had a bash - worth a read.

“Igor was a soldier and mercenary. He has fought in many wars and conflicts and now wants to testify about war crimes by the Russian army.”​

www.zdf.de

1/4 Igor: Ein russischer Söldner packt aus

Igor kämpfte als Söldner und will nun über Kriegsverbrechen in der Ukraine aussagen.
www.zdf.de www.zdf.de

www.dailykos.com

The Story of a Russian Mercenary

I stumbled upon an interesting report or better series of reports on the German television channel ZDF (Second German Television). I was searching for an english equivalent to this report, only finding some ukrainian reports witch might look like...
www.dailykos.com
 
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