Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Leave a small unaffected strip inbetween the two?
Ukraine V
- Thread starter DimitryZ
- Start date
Leave a small unaffected strip inbetween the two?
anubisgrau
pfm Member
amazing how you don't give a toss about any victims whatsoever....
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Odd. I can't see how giving an infinite 'toss' makes what he said the slightest bit less true. I also can't see how you deduce the horrible lack of toss from what he said....
NeilR
pfm Member
Bizarre post.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It’s as if Russia hasn’t invaded a neighbouring country and spent the last year killing its citizens, systematically destroying their homes, schools, hospitals and their way of life. The blame for that is off-loaded onto the victims and everyone else.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
No it isn’t.
Hook
Blackbeard's former bo'sun.
Not when you view it as trolling. When you do, then it becomes just more of the usual crap, posted only to antagonize and provoke a reaction.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Same technique when a spoiled brat with a tennis racquet and a habit of spreading anti-vax conspiracy theories was refused entry into a country where every other person entering had to prove vaccination.
anubisgrau
pfm Member
You truly are at limits of your mental capacities when you have to involve "a spoiled brat" into Ukraine topic.
Meanwhile, more trolling. You can thank me later...
"WASHINGTON — A new batch of classified documents that appear to detail American national security secrets from Ukraine to the Middle East to China surfaced on social media sites on Friday, alarming the Pentagon and adding turmoil to a situation that seemed to have caught the Biden administration off guard.
The scale of the leak — analysts say more than 100 documents may have been obtained — along with the sensitivity of the documents themselves, could be hugely damaging, U.S. officials said. A senior intelligence official called the leak “a nightmare for the Five Eyes,” in a reference to the United States, Britain, Australia, New Zealand and Canada, the so-called Five Eyes nations that broadly share intelligence."
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/07/...guVjPjLfuD-7WRh-09ZuR6DcTRFU0g1IbtHden3CWWJSc
DonQuixote99
pfm Member
Spin of the day has to be this NY Times teaser. I know what they mean, but even so....
Newly leaked Pentagon documents reveal how deeply the United States has penetrated Russia’s security and intelligence services.
Newly leaked Pentagon documents reveal how deeply the United States has penetrated Russia’s security and intelligence services.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
TBF I think the thread had deviated to your modus
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It was clear from the week before the invasion that the Kremlin was put on the back foot by highly detailed information coming out of Washington about Russia’s order of battle, logistics infrastructure and strategy for the lightning decapitation of Ukraine’s government.
Now you could imagine that came from intercepts and satellite imaging but it was so rich a trove that bodies close to the hive queen must heave been leaking to the Americans.
I gather a number of senior FSB officers were rounded up and transferred to the Lefortovo, ostensibly the Ukraine FSB section for failing to advise Putler the Ukrainians would fight and that the Russian invasion plans were based on fantasy.
Congratulations are in order for the government of Ukraine for the feint they pulled off in declaring that they did not believe Washington, while making preparations to meet the Russian invaders, notably at Hostomel Airport where Russian special forces were wiped out on the tarmac shortly after touching down.
"Absolutely heartbreaking story. A Ukrainian grandma travelled to Russia to find her deported grandchildren. She was detained by the FSB and died during an interrogation in Russia. May the Russians feel at least half of the pain they inflicted on Ukrainians." (Julia Tymoshenko, Twitter).
Chefren
pfm Member
I wonder about this, Ukraine did not start full mobilisation until after the invasion started. If they had all that intelligence available, they should have known at the latest several days before that negotiation was futile, unless perhaps they showed themselves well prepared to meet the invasion.
Surprising special forces is all well and good, but they did not I think pick the best strategy for avoiding the invasion altogether.
So maybe they did use some intelligence effectively, but they should have at least called in large reserve formations for a general military exercise of their own. Or maybe they did and the fog of war was already thick at that point? Does someone know?
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
Don't forget that before the invasion, Ukraine already had a very large army. Maybe it felt it had sufficient ground forces to deal with the Russian military deployed to the region?
I'd guess that they didn't think they'd win an all out face to face fight. The Russian army was (thought to be) too strong and too large and that the Russians would gain air superiority fairly quickly and that would be a disaster for a (largely) infantry based Ukrainian defence force.
But if they let the Russians advance well into Ukraine and overstretch itself then a strong, well motivated defensive force could pick them off at will.
But if they let the Russians advance well into Ukraine and overstretch itself then a strong, well motivated defensive force could pick them off at will.
Chefren
pfm Member
Looking at what war written in February 2022, Ukraine's army had about 145.000 troops in service + however large their territorial defence forces were. But at the start of the war, as far as I know, they were outnumbered.
They had though significant reserves, many of who had been rotated via the Donbass at some point so had at least some actual conflict experience. But as far as I know, these were called back to service only after the 2022 invasion began.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
And Ukrainian intelligence estimated 90000 Russian troops were amassed (of which many would be support troops), so the assessment might have been that it was a number that could be countered, although I have no idea of how many of the 145000 troops would have been in the East:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prelude_to_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine
Chefren
pfm Member
Maybe yes, but mobilizing during an invasion is a lot harder than when you have complete control over your own territory. They could still do an elastic defence either way.
My point was not so much about what happened after the invasion kicked off, but wondering if Ukraine had really gotten and accepted first-rate intelligence on Russia before the invasion, they should in my mind have mobilized sooner. There was a tiny chance that this might even have caused Russia to blink.
Of course there are other alternatives, maybe they were worried that a mobilization could not be well-organized and would look bad.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
It might also have gone the other way and forced an earlier invasion.