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Ukraine IV

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gints said:
That is about early 90? Probably you are right, actually I have no idea about Moscow. At our home I remember small cities, villages, who was more into local market, went through it a bit more easy than big cities with their big, specialized factories, who lost their market. At least at beginning.
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That is from the experience of my partner who left a city with a population of about 250,000 as a trained nurse and headed for Moscow leaving her son behind with her parents while she established herself.
 
anubisgrau said:
i'm wondering how come that neither checnya nor georgia yield so much support from the west like ukraine?

was there a topic on PFM at least?
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They did. But Chechnia is Russian territory. And during Georgian War, the West harboured hopes that Russia is still in some ways a "normal" country and not a failed state run by a criminal sindicate headed by a madman.

The reaction to the first Ukraine invasion was a miss by Obama. His administration was in permanent analysis paralysis.

West's problem was never some tricky, nefarious multi-dimensional chess - it was simply failure of imagination. Everyone hoped that Putin was not a madman - and everyone was wrong.
 
DimitryZ said:
Georgians remember this very well - that's why a battalion of them are fighting Russians in Ukraine.

What makes Russian aggression so galling is that they ALWAYS say that the victims did it to themselves - Georgians destroying their own cities, Ukranians killing themselves with hands tied behind their back, Syrians poisoning themselves with chemicals, etc. And they have their "repeaters" like ones we have here spread this manure around.

Even Armenia - long a Russian ally - has soured on the "Big Brother" after Russia sold them out in the last war and recent Azeri advances.
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You need support your propaganda with link to trusted source and not to write sweeping accusations. Everything you write is emotional manipulation and hatred.

Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh is two separated state. During Azeri and Nagorno-Karabakh war there is no Russia involvement. Russia serve as peacekeeper between Azeri and Nagorno-Karabakh.
 
DimitryZ said:
But Chechnia is Russian territory. And during Georgian War, the West harboured hopes that Russia is still in some ways a "normal" country and not a failed state run by a criminal sindicate headed by a madman.
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During first and second Chechnia War my favorite West generously supplied Chechens with money, invited terrorists and Western weapons.
 
cobbers said:
So Saakashvili should have just rolled over and let it happen when terrorists in separist regions responsible for ethnic cleansing were clearly been supported from north of the border.
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I don't know. It's my only guess why they meet at parliament building in Tbilisi.
 
[email protected] said:
You need support your propaganda with link to trusted source and not to write sweeping accusations. Everything you write is emotional manipulation and hatred.

Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh is two separated state. During Azeri and Nagorno-Karabakh war there is no Russia involvement. Russia serve as peacekeeper between Azeri and Nagorno-Karabakh.
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Do you even understand how laughable your "explanations" are?

The Rushist narrative is always the same. A small country on its border suddenly attacks Russia, forcing it to invade and take over the countries' territories. The people living there are given Russian citizenship and the lands are pronounced "independent."

It's not even proper propaganda - it's just moronic idiocy. The only people that are " captured" by this are Rushists themselves and an odd Serbian.

Rushist propaganda clowns are truly a laughingstock of the world. And with your propaganda vans in Ukraine, the laughter is louder then ever.
 
[email protected] said:
Because they curse Saakashvili? Also, how will Zelinsky be cursed?
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Just worry about your own country please. It's on the brink of a second disintegration.

The only unknown is what part of the body will be used to hang Putin. He watched the lynching of Khadafy many times... Understandably concerned.
 
DimitryZ said:
As opposed to the actual invasions that Russia has done, complete with indiscriminate bombing and annexation of territory in three sovereign nations?

If there is a way to try to excuse Russian crimes, Western liberals WILL ferret them out.
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Oh you moral highness???

Did any weapons you designed or produced contributed to deaths in NATO bombing of Yugoslavia?

Are you proud of that?

Did you get any rewards for well done job? Salary increase?

"Thirty-three incidents occurred as a result of attacks on targets in densely populated urban areas (including six in Belgrade). Despite the exclusive use of precision-guided weapons in attacks on the capital, Belgrade experienced as many incidents involving civilian deaths as any other city. In Nis, the use of cluster bombs was a decisive factor in civilian deaths in at least three incidents. Overall, cluster bomb use by the United States and Britain can be confirmed in seven incidents throughout Yugoslavia (another five are possible but unconfirmed); some ninety to 150 civilians died from the use of these weapons."

Human Rights Watch:

https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/2000/nato/Natbm200.htm

You can run away from Russia but a Russian in you can't hide...
 
DimitryZ said:
They did. But Chechnia is Russian territory.
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Kosovo was a Yugoslav territory too but it didn't prevent US and UK (NATO, in short) from attacking and later invading the sovereign state.

You got what you deserve from Putin for your moral bankrupcy, only that so many of innocent Ukrainian babushkas suffer or died. The revenge should be delivered right to the US and UK doorsteps but you are cowards, you hide behind naive Ukr civilians....
 
DimitryZ said:
Do you even understand how laughable your "explanations" are?

The Rushist narrative is always the same. A small country on its border suddenly attacks Russia, forcing it to invade and take over the countries' territories. The people living there are given Russian citizenship and the lands are pronounced "independent."

It's not even proper propaganda - it's just moronic idiocy. The only people that are " captured" by this are Rushists themselves and an odd Serbian.

Rushist propaganda clowns are truly a laughingstock of the world. And with your propaganda vans in Ukraine, the laughter is louder then ever.
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Unfortunately, manipulative mechanics are constantly used in your messages, so this message appeals to public opinion again. Speak on your own behalf.

This is not a narrative, this is the context and its development by the hands of the USA

1. Prepare public opinion through US-sponsored non-profit organizations (you name it). Soft power!
2. Put a dependent president at the head of a small state.
3. Corrupt him with loans and IMF assistance (with the ability to steal). Like you do with Zelensky.
4. Get a hostile state at the borders of Russia.
5. Profit! Сheck the quotes of US arms manufacturing companies

Repeat.

And please don't reply on my message in your manipulative way. I don't want to read this superficial propaganda.
 
DimitryZ said:
Just worry about your own country please. It's on the brink of a second disintegration.

The only unknown is what part of the body will be used to hang Putin. He watched the lynching of Khadafy many times... Understandably concerned.
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You sounds like liberal-shizoid.
I'm not attacking you but for me it sounds like that.
 
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