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Ukraine IV

Discussion in 'off topic' started by -alan-, Apr 13, 2022.

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  1. -alan-

    -alan- pfm Member

  2. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    On contrary, I makes me sad to see more civilian suffering. Poor Ukraine and its people, stuck between anvil and hammer. No one here will live long enough to see this country recovered.
     
  3. rtrt

    rtrt pfm Member

    All of it or just a specific part you want to call out?
     
  4. -alan-

    -alan- pfm Member

    @dmitre@gmail.co

    A strange comparison I might say, as someone who lived in Northern Ireland throughout the whole Troubles era. Subversive and fully opposed to British rule in Ireland as the IRA were, they never sought or expressed any desire to "kill all British to be really free and independent". One of the most extreme and some would say effective terrorist organisations in Western Europe over the last what - 50 years - and yet they never espoused the kind of mass murder of civilians as you describe here - and certainly would never have been accused of doing so by successive British Governments.

    In the case of Ukraine, it seems even more nonsensical, as they already have their independence from your State, so why would they need to embark on a further programme of killing large numbers of Russian civilians ??

    Do you have any evidence whatsoever - no matter how light - to support your claim that large numbers of Ukrainians have a desire to "kill all Russians to be free and independent" ?
     
  5. davidsrsb

    davidsrsb pfm Member

    rtrt likes this.
  6. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Was watching in our news about Sweden and Finland considering joining NATO. Actually, there was mentioned a very valid point in my view. What if Russia will go for Finland. No NATO, nobody can come help legally. If somebody is ready volunteer, Russia threatens go nuclear, and Finland stays alone. What if Russia decides take Gotland (strategic place). Same scenario, no NATO, no help. This is Ukraine scenario today.
     
    PsB likes this.
  7. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    This is spotted at the very beginning of Ukr crisis by everyone professionally involved with migrations and refugees.

    There was a plenty of truly horrible, racist statements from the highest levels of political elites - championing Ukr refugees skills, education and color over Middle East and African ones.
     
    rtrt likes this.
  8. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    There’s something quite perverse about the argument advanced over the last couple of pages. That Russia has invaded Ukraine, is killing its citizens and systematically destroying its cities and has directly threatened other European countries with the same and a Russian responds with “I don’t think you like us”.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
    ff1d1l and venton like this.
  9. rtrt

    rtrt pfm Member

    Think it's more accurate to say no direct military intervention, as Ukraine isn't a member of Nato and the US & Nato think its too risky at least for now.

    But they're clearly receiving lot of other assistance - weapons & ammunition shipments, apparently near real time intelligence from airborne electronic warfare platforms flying in Polish airspace, plus I'd guess nrt satellite intelligence from the US as well.

    Plus from what I've read - a number of years of military training from the US, UK and other countries since the annexation of Crimea.

    So not everything that Zelensky is asking for but not nothing either.
     
  10. Mike & Van

    Mike & Van Banned troll

    Just now watching on BBC 4 'Putin, Russia and the West', episode 3 'War'. About the Georgia/Russia conflict which lasted for quite some time around the early 00s, right now I'm at 2010, and it's incredibly obvious just how wrong footed the US/EU (bar Germany) approach to this has been. Pretty much the same situation as Ukraine, with Russia assisting break away movements near it's border. Putin is clearly massively riled by Nato encroachment, and you cannot blame him, can you imagine the Warsaw pact surrounding the US? Just hypocrisy on a massive scale. In one clip, Putin pokes fun at G W Bush's assertion that Nato bases were needed in Poland to deter Iranian missiles aimed at Europe, he (Putin) jokes the missiles don't even exist!
     
  11. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    You may be flushed for the Putin propaganda...
     
  12. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Yes, that is more correct, no direct military intervention. Sweden fights alone, Finland fights alone. Ukraine fights alone.
     
  13. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    when already talking about fairytales, do you believe in unicorns?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
  14. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Two months ago invading Ukraine was fairytale.
     
    ff1d1l, PsB and TheDecameron like this.
  15. anubisgrau

    anubisgrau pfm Member

    I'm talking about your theory that Ukr fights alone.
     
  16. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Go tell about those fairytales to Sweden and Finland people.
     
  17. gints

    gints pfm Member

    Who else is there?
     
  18. DimitryZ

    DimitryZ pfm Member

    I have been a frequent reader of the Russian language net for a very long time and often wondered myself. Is there some secret sign that everyone missed and Ukraine harbors large percentage of potential anti-Russian murderers?

    In fiery debates on Russian language forums I saw one episode from recent past that is brought up by Putinists as incontrovertible proof of this murderous intent.

    Apparently, sometime just before Maidan, during it or right after, there was a demonstration in Kiyv that included a group that chanted “Moskalyaku na Gilyaku!” which means something like "Hang the Moscovites" or "Moskovites to the Gallows." This made a lot of Russian social media and was heavily promoted on Russian TV. There are probably YouTube clips of this, like the Nazi rally we had in US a few years back (where an anti-nazi activist was murdered).

    The above is brought up a lot on Russian forums as "proof of intent."
     
  19. kensalriser

    kensalriser pfm Member

    NATO poses no threat to Russia, of which Putin is well aware. It is simply a pretext.
     
    kenniGT likes this.
  20. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    NYT reporting that TASS confirm an explosion on the Russian flag ship Moskva and it’s evacuation.
     
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