UK Election 2015 (part III)
- Thread starter Blzebub
- Start date
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
In the form of a byelection...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...democrats-byelection-threat-leak-snp-sturgeon
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...democrats-byelection-threat-leak-snp-sturgeon
The Far North
pfm Member
What bugs me about Carmichael is that his background of being a Procurator Fiscal and Kirk Elder might have given him a bit of integrity and would have been expected to rein in the lack of ethics of a politician, but clearly this has not been the case. I think the Lib Dems now have to decide whether this is their acceptable face, or if they should ditch him soonest as they prepare to rebuild for the future.
SteveG
pfm Member
I suspect even the LibDem's would normally have booted him for this but given their own state I think they'll do everything they can to keep him.
Tony L
Administrator
A better argument for a system of proper MP recall would hard to find. It should be up to the local electorate as to whether they consider him fit for purpose.
From a LD party perspective it would be far, far better to ditch him now IMO. Better to get it done whilst the party is at absolute rock bottom rather than wait until things start moving back to them once the penny drops as to just how bad an unchecked/unrestrained far-right modern Tory party really is! I suspect people will like the Libs a little more once they realse what having none around feels like...
Paul R
pfm Member
Ignoring the irrelevancy of the LDs, is the SNP's clamour going to help or hinder them?
Now we know that the report was accurate, there was no 'dirty trick', the only wriggle for the SNP is claiming that the French ambassador misunderstood Nicola Sturgeon. Perhaps a bit subtle for them.
Paul
Now we know that the report was accurate, there was no 'dirty trick', the only wriggle for the SNP is claiming that the French ambassador misunderstood Nicola Sturgeon. Perhaps a bit subtle for them.
Paul
kendo
Prussian bot
Which report was accurate Paul?
droodzilla
pfm Member
What clamour is that?
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
I think we now know the memo was real and the Daily Tel were not just making it up, not that the discussion took place. Even if we think Sturgeon was campaigning in bad faith, it's a very unlikely thing for her to say to anyone outside of her inner circle let alone the French ambassador.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
Report of the leak in the Daily Tel.
Clamour by the SNP to have a by-election during which the focus would inevitably be on the memo we now know exists.
SteveG
pfm Member
No - the argument is that the guy that wrote the memo thinks he probably mistranslated what he heard in a conversation with someone who had a conversation with someone who was at the actual meeting. Apparently there was no malice involved when he noted down what he thought he'd heard, so it's not a fake as such. Its contents are still bollocks though - even the guy that leaked it has admitted that, along with everyone who was actually at the meeting.
SteveG
pfm Member
And which everyone, including the guy who wrote it, thinks isn't an accurate representation of the meeting.
The memo isn't the issue any more (not that ever really was given no-one sane believed it was true). The issue now is that a government minister deliberately leaked a confidential memo he knew wasn't true in a deliberate attempt to influence the result of a general election. He then lied about it, causing £1.4M to be spent on a government inquiry which caught him red handed in what was a very amateur leak. His party doesn't appear to think he did anything wrong however it'll be interesting to see what happens now as his constituents seemed to have been content to be represented by what they thought was an honest idiot (anyone who saw his debating performances in the run-up to the referendum won't dispute the latter) but now realise they're being represented by a corrupt, dishonest idiot and aren't happy.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Carmichael won the seat with a sub- thousand majority. Many of his constituents are calling for his resignation- even among those who voted for him. He needs to go, his political party is irrelevant. A suspension from Parliament of over 21 days and a petition by as few as 10% of the electorate will force a byelection. The latter, from what I'm hearing, is not going to be a problem.
The Far North
pfm Member
And from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-32866193
The Nationalists have highlighted Mr Carmichael's response to Labour MP Phil Woolas' dishonest campaign in the 2010 general election, for which an election court found Mr Woolas guilty of illegal practice under the Representation of The People Act 1983.
In a Shetland Times feature from November 2010, Mr Carmichael wrote: "The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending."
The Nationalists have highlighted Mr Carmichael's response to Labour MP Phil Woolas' dishonest campaign in the 2010 general election, for which an election court found Mr Woolas guilty of illegal practice under the Representation of The People Act 1983.
In a Shetland Times feature from November 2010, Mr Carmichael wrote: "The right to freedom of speech is a fundamental one but it does bring a responsibility with it to tell the truth. The right to smear an opponent is not one we should be defending."
Paul R
pfm Member
The discussion noted in the memo took place, the question is about the form of the original discussion. Which seems unlikely as you say and which has been denied by the involved parties.
Carmichael clearly will be gone, and it wouldn't in fact be surprising if Sturgeon held the views attributed to her. But the SNP pushing so aggressively for another scalp will mean no quarter should any cracks appear in their record.
It's an entertaining sideshow.
Paul
MikeMA
pfm Member
Really?
There is an awful lot of self-denial going on here on the part of the true believers.
The electorate really isn't that stupid.
Keep it up and Labour will never win another election.
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
I am forced to concede by the brilliance of your argument. Well played, Sir.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
I suspect it says more about 'Kirk Elders' than politicians. We all 'know' that politicians are 'bent', but we are remarkably slow to pick up on similar or worse traits in those who claim to interpret the word of God/Allah/Buddha etc., for our edification and moral welfare.
Mull
SteveG
pfm Member
I suspect it's a lot more down to Carmichael actually being an idiot than anything else. It was a very, very amateur leak - possibly because he and his party were desperate at the time - and he certainly doesn't come over as the brightest spark in debates etc.