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Thorens TD-124/II restoration / upgrade

Tony L said:
I’m liking the Retrotone platter, it’s upped the bass slam and dynamics without any negatives I’ve noticed. Tighter and more ‘thwack’ to drums. This 124 really is sounding good at the moment, all the effort and OCD has paid off!
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The ability to use the 45 adapter and keep the original mat make it an easy decision, esp if you feel there is a small increase in sound quality.
My top platter isn't too warped with just a touch of visible rise and fall- it would probably drive you mad Tony. My deck originally came with the Zamac platter which I replaced with an old iron one and that improved the sound. I like the idea of adding even more mass!
 
I did buy the expanded Retrotone kit just in case I ever wanted to try anything else, but I’m using my stock mat and 45 adapter as I just like the look of the 124 too much to screw with it! Wrong mats just look too wrong!
 
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Tony L said:
I did buy the expanded Retrotone kit just in case I ever wanted to try anything else, but I’m using my stock mat and 45 adapter as I just like the look of the 124 too much to screw with it! Wrong mats just look too wrong!
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I'm in the same camp with regard to the original mat and adapter. The mat seems to do a perfectly acceptable job and the adapter is a clever part of the design. I'm aware of others trying third party mats but I can't imagine that any sonic difference would be significant. If I was persuaded otherwise I might forgoe the ascetic consideration and try one although I think I would always prefer the look of the original mat.
 
Mats do certainly sound different. I absolutely refuse to use a hard mat and clamp or weight as I’m a record collector/dealer and have seen the damage they cause, but they do certainly sound different from rubber, and that sounds different again from felt. The 124/II mat is one that offers very little support, which is a good/bad thing depending on one’s perspective. There are a whole range of approaches from the soft and sticky rubber Dumpa mats etc of the 70s through minimal contact like the Ring Mat (and 124/II) through felt and cork to solid copper or glass etc (which I just wouldn’t use due to risk of marking the vinyl if a tiny spec of hard dust appeared).
 
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@Tony L

I’m thinking about going for the Retrotone upper platter too. Tom K said it’s a simple drop in replacement if using the original mat. Would there be any assembly or mods required with the 45 adaptor? I’m still a bit confused by it.
 
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Nagraboy said:
@Tony L

I’m thinking about going for the Retrotone upper platter too. Tom K said it’s a simple drop in replacement if using the original mat. Would there be any assembly or mods required with the 45 adaptor? I’m still a bit confused by it.
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If you pop the 45 adapter into its ‘up’ position you can see three screws. Just undo these and the adapter and mat come free of the upper platter. Fitting the Retrotone is kind of the reverse aside from it doesn’t need the back-plate. It also comes with three allen bolts which are easier to deal with than the original slotted screws.

The thing you may need to adjust is the clutch, assuming you use it (I don’t, but I still adjusted it as that’s just what I do!).
 
Tony L said:
If you pop the 45 adapter into its ‘up’ position you can see three screws. Just undo these and the adapter and mat come free of the upper platter. Fitting the Retrotone is kind of the reverse aside from it doesn’t need the back-plate. It also comes with three allen bolts which are easier to deal with than the original slotted screws.

The thing you may need to adjust is the clutch, assuming you use it (I don’t, but I still adjusted it as that’s just what I do!).
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Well then, I might just order one and deal with learning about clutch adjustment once it arrives - I like using the clutch actually. I’m sure it’ll be simple (with a few pointers!) like all the little jobs I’ve done on the TD124 so far.
 
The clutch is very simple to adjust, though you do need to get under the deck to do it. I can talk you through it if it needs doing.
 
Mike’s new belt arrived today. Just about to fit it - exciting!

mRrei2v.jpg


I can confirm it’s really noisy at first, but I can already see it has far less tension than the Hanze belt which means my springs and rods are now properly aligned. Let’s see how it goes over the next few hours…
 
Mine is exceptionally quiet now. I’ve been playing a lot of vinyl over the past few days as I’m cataloguing the collection so it has done many hours now. I can’t say exactly when it got acceptably quiet, but I’d say a couple of nights average listening would get you there.
 
Tony L said:
Mine is exceptionally quiet now. I’ve been playing a lot of vinyl over the past few days as I’m cataloguing the collection so it has done many hours now. I can’t say exactly when it got acceptably quiet, but I’d say a couple of nights average listening would get you there.
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Very encouraging to hear that Tony. I’ve played nearly 2 LPs tonight (Dr. John then Shades of Blue) and can’t hear any noise whilst music plays. Even though noise is audible with my head next to the deck, I note that the high-frequency noise I had due to the overly tight Hanze belt has vanished with Mike’s belt - that’s a good start.

Re: noise, I’ve also put some GE and Mullards in my Leben phono and integrated which have also dropped noise significantly. Lowering the noise always helps musically.
 
Mike's belt arrived today so I whipped off the platter, gave the pulleys a good clean and changed belts. Here are some photos of my deck I took whilst doing the swap.
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Firstly, top platter off (Thorens tease).
20220221_161250 by Chris Eveleigh, on Flickr

My main platter is not quite as nice as Tony's having seen photos of his but it was cheap and does the job.

Under the platter is a bit grubby, I fitted the Hanze springs previously but other than that and swapping the Zamac Platter for an iron one the deck is all original. I removed the 'serviced' sticker today as well....

20220221_161422 by Chris Eveleigh, on Flickr

I did notice several little indentations to on the left hand pulley presumably to meet the tolerance for weight. The other pulley has one indentation. The pulleys were filthy and it took several minutes to remove all the rubber.

20220221_161426 by Chris Eveleigh, on Flickr

20220221_161527 by Chris Eveleigh, on Flickr

Once the belt was on I gave her a spin.... As anticipated and reported by Tony and Nagraboy there was some noise although no more than the noise I had been getting prior to cleaning the pulleys. I began to draft a message to Mike, letting him know the belt had arrived when I heard a significant change in the noise from the deck and a lowering in the decibels. after an hour and thirty the deck is near silent. Previously I could hear the deck during quiet passages of music from my listening seat of about eight feet away. I've yet to play any music but the platter is still spinning. Up to this point I have to say I am impressed with Mike's belt and I cannily hope it shows good longevity. Well done Mike!

Any observations you might have about my deck now I have posted some images would be welcome as I know some of you have extensive experience working on the 124.
 
My 124 has over a dozen ‘indentations’ on the step pulley. Must’ve been a really shoddy job back in 1966! Still, sounds fine now. Glad you’re getting the same great results with the new belt that I and others have had.
 
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Evo said:
Under the platter is a bit grubby, I fitted the Hanze springs previously but other than that and swapping the Zamac Platter for an iron one the deck is all original. I removed the 'serviced' sticker today as well....

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Your back motor mounting circlip is about to fly away into another dimension!

PS I can’t emphasise just how important surgically clean and smooth running surfaces are for this deck. The motor pulley and step-pulley need to be absolutely perfect IME. I spent hours polishing mine!
 
Yes Nagra, it is possibly the easiest upgrade available.
I fancy a large plinth to accommodate another arm, my current plinth is a very nice Carl Ellis example but I can't bring myself to take the 3009 off the deck. A nice big plinth allows me to keep the deck as is and add another arm - your new arm is good aesthetic match to the deck. I also want to change the tonearm cable on the 3009. I am having some issues with noise when using my MC cartridge. Changing the tonearm cable may help.
 
Tony L said:
Your back motor mounting circlip is about to fly away into another dimension!

PS I can’t emphasise just how important surgically clean and smooth running surfaces are for this deck. The motor pulley and step-pulley need to be absolutely perfect IME. I spent hours polishing mine!
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How did you do it Tony, do they just pull away or is there a way to release the pulleys from their spindles? I’ve not tried to remove either pulley, I’ve just been letting them spin round whilst holding an alcohol-soaked cotton bug up to them.
 
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I knew you'd see that Tony! I had a go at fitting it properly after taking the pic. A lot of choice words later it's more snug than before but still not quite seated properly (it's been like that for ages tbh) and I gave up.
 
Nagraboy said:
How did you do it Tony, do they just pull away or is there a way to release the pulleys from their spindles? I’ve not tried to remove either pulley, I’ve just been letting them spin round whilst holding an alcohol-soaked cotton bug up to them.
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The step pulley just pulls straight upwards like the platter once you have loosened the little screw and plate that slightly covers it at the back. The motor pulley is held on with two tiny screws between the two pulleys, one is black, one is silver, when refitting you are meant to tighten one before the other, but I can’t remember which for perfect balance (one of mine was damaged when I bought the deck so I replaced both with allen bolt grub screws which are easier to deal with, I’ve replaced a lot of the bolts to be honest).
 
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