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The Premiership of Mary Elizabeth Truss.Sept 2022 - Oct 2022

paulfromcamden said:
New Health Secretary says if NHS nursing staff don't like their pay and conditions they're free to leave.
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That's what many have already done as a result of Tory treatment. Their Governments force the NHS to hold down pay and conditions. The Nurses then leave, take work with a 'private' outsourcing supplier of nurses, and come back as contract staff.

The Nurses who do that then get better pay and conditions *and* the outsourcing company add their profit to the costs.

Result: We pay far more than if the NHS Nurses had those same better terms and pay whilst still being NHS staff. The (often American, but if not, some other non-UK owner in many cases) take their leeched 'profit' abroad, probably dodging UK tax as it goes.

Some of which then ends up in the wallets of Tories.

We put up with it because the Daily Flail, etc, are happy to cover it up. Then we moan about the 'inefficiency and costs' of the NHS. Must be because it is State run...
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
That's what many have already done as a result of Tory treatment. Their Governments force the NHS to hold down pay and conditions. The Nurses then leave, take work with a 'private' outsourcing supplier of nurses, and come back as contract staff.

The Nurses who do that then get better pay and conditions *and* the outsourcing company add their profit to the costs.

Result: We pay far more than if the NHS Nurses had those same better terms and pay whilst still being NHS staff. The (often American, but if not, some other non-UK owner in many cases) take their leeched 'profit' abroad, probably dodging UK tax as it goes.

Some of which then ends up in the wallets of Tories.

We put up with it because the Daily Flail, etc, are happy to cover it up. Then we moan about the 'inefficiency and costs' of the NHS. Must be because it is State run...
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A family member is a nurse and has been contemplating doing exactly as Jim has said. She has seen staff come to work on what should be a day off. The staff only have to work to the agreement arranged by the agency which often means doing fewer tasks than under their NHS contract.

I can’t begin to tell you how much this pi55es me off. Not because she’s ultimately making the NHS (and therefore the population) pay more for her services but because the Tory (we are so financially astute) government are falling for this. Perhaps this is part of the plan to privatise via the back door.

I would love to see some independently produced figures on this. Cost of nurses in the NHS v cost of nurses via agencies. My guess is that the government could afford to give nurses a decent pay rise just by eliminating the agencies. However, we are talking about the Tories here and ideology matters more than anything else.

Welcoming nurses from overseas is a typical Tory solution. For every nurse who arrives here from Nigeria / Jamaica / Philippines etc, there’s a hospital somewhere abroad missing a staff member. Perhaps the Tories see exporting misery as a new opportunity.
 
cooky1257 said:
Third world shithole here we come.
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That's not a very nice thing to say about Scotland

Although Coffey is not considering making antibiotics available over the counter, he [sic] is planning a Scottish-style scheme that would allow pharmacists to prescribe antibiotics, without the advice of a doctor, to patients they believe are suffering from certain conditions.
 
Leap to their defence yet again..you fool no one with faux 'balanced' postings..
From the NHS; About pharmacists
Pharmacists are experts in medicines who can help you with minor health concerns.

As qualified healthcare professionals, they can offer clinical advice and over-the-counter medicines for a range of minor illnesses, such as coughs, colds, sore throats, tummy trouble and aches and pains.

If symptoms suggest it's something more serious, pharmacists have the right training to make sure you get the help you need. For example they will tell you if you need to see a GP, nurse or other healthcare professional.

All pharmacists train for 5 years in the use of medicines. They are also trained in managing minor illnesses and providing health and wellbeing advice.

Many pharmacies are open until late and at weekends. You do not need an appointment.

Most pharmacies have a private consultation room where you can discuss issues with pharmacy staff without being overheard.
 
Jim Audiomisc said:
That's what many have already done as a result of Tory treatment. Their Governments force the NHS to hold down pay and conditions. The Nurses then leave, take work with a 'private' outsourcing supplier of nurses, and come back as contract staff.

The Nurses who do that then get better pay and conditions *and* the outsourcing company add their profit to the costs.

Result: We pay far more than if the NHS Nurses had those same better terms and pay whilst still being NHS staff. The (often American, but if not, some other non-UK owner in many cases) take their leeched 'profit' abroad, probably dodging UK tax as it goes.

Some of which then ends up in the wallets of Tories.

We put up with it because the Daily Flail, etc, are happy to cover it up. Then we moan about the 'inefficiency and costs' of the NHS. Must be because it is State run...
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A nurse friend has done this. Her salary went up by £20k. Nurses are just ridiculously underpaid, I don’t really understand why we just don’t pay more; pension liabilities?

I think there are definite inefficiencies within the NHS, it’s just too big & unwieldy with a multiplicity of skill sets. I’d like to see smaller units of specialist centres but any talk of ‘reform’ becomes very political.
 
tiggers said:
You see this is the problem. The NHS is like a sacred cow and no one can say anything negative about it without being thought of at around the same level as a baby murderer. Thing is governments either starve it of funds or chuck untargeted money at it. In many parts it isn’t terribly well run and could do with a proper root and branch overhaul, but no government is ever brave enough to say and do so properly. It is an amazing service for sure and we are rightfully proud of it but it could be so much better.
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The NHS will eat whatever money is thrown at it. If it had unlimited funds there would be problems, it’s simply unavoidable with such a colossal organisation. What I find extraordinary is that most vocal criticism tends to come from supporters of opposition parties. All my family and friends have received outstanding service from the NHS, without exception. It’s a phenomenal public service. Maybe there’s a sophisticated algorithm which only allows voters of the party in power a positive experience.
 
Woodface said:
A nurse friend has done this. Her salary went up by £20k. Nurses are just ridiculously underpaid, I don’t really understand why we just don’t pay more; pension liabilities?

I think there are definite inefficiencies within the NHS, it’s just too big & unwieldy with a multiplicity of skill sets. I’d like to see smaller units of specialist centres but any talk of ‘reform’ becomes very political.
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Absolutely agree. One of the problems is putting the right people into the right jobs. Some nurses are brilliant at giving care but not so good at keeping on top of the paperwork. We cannot expect everybody to be brilliant at everything. However, I’m told that there are also employees who are not performing as well as they should be.

It’s a tough nut to crack. It seems to me that just throwing money at the NHS is not going to solve all of the problems. However, not spending is also going to have serious (fatal ?) consequences for patients.
 
Woodface said:
any talk of ‘reform’ becomes very political.
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It certainly does when the person calling for reform has co-authored a book on dismantling the NHS.

Hilarious really that Jeremy Hunt published a book a few months ago about what he thought needed to be done to fix the NHS, conveniently side-stepping the fact that from 2012-2018 the Health Secretary, the person responsible for running the NHS, was, er, Jeremy Hunt.
 
matthewr said:
The main problem over my lifetime has been too many attempts at "reform" not too few.
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It needs a long term plan, the problem is any ‘reforms’ in your lifetime have been way too short term oriented. Leaving it to run as it is regardless of the funding situation will never work well. Anyway as ever on here I can see I’m wasting my time having an opinion different to ‘just throw money at it’ so I’ll get back to doing something more productive.
 
Ponty said:
All my family and friends have received outstanding service from the NHS, without exception. It’s a phenomenal public service.
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I'm sure we've all had fantastic care from the NHS. When my brother had a near fatal motorbike accident and was given less than a 50% chance of survival the care he received was second to none. I'm not sure he'd be here today without the NHS.

Free healthcare. Cradle to grave. Unquestionably Britain's greatest 20th century achievement.

But it's running on vapour and good will. And it's taking a terrible toll on the staff that keep us well. Read Adam Kay's account of his time as a junior doctor. Genuine offer: PM me your address and I'll buy you a copy as a gift.
 
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Stemcor said:
Absolutely agree. One of the problems is putting the right people into the right jobs. Some nurses are brilliant at giving care but not so good at keeping on top of the paperwork. We cannot expect everybody to be brilliant at everything. However, I’m told that there are also employees who are not performing as well as they should be.

It’s a tough nut to crack. It seems to me that just throwing money at the NHS is not going to solve all of the problems. However, not spending is also going to have serious (fatal ?) consequences for patients.
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I think all medics do need to be good at paperwork & record keeping but there is broken IT system with lots of disparate parts. A friend who is a consultant has to update as many as 16 different systems. It’s absolutely nuts.

Cannot stress enough how imperfect systems can bring everything to a halt.

We may need big regionalised specialist centres but this always faces opposition, but not all hospitals can be good or have the right staff.

I don’t know whether it’s more difficult to shed staff in the public sector, I’m guessing so, but things can always be improved.
 
Woodface said:
I think all medics do need to be good at paperwork & record keeping but there is broken IT system with lots of disparate parts. A friend who is a consultant has to update as many as 16 different systems. It’s absolutely nuts.

Cannot stress enough how imperfect systems can bring everything to a halt.

We may need big regionalised specialist centres but this always faces opposition, but not all hospitals can be good or have the right staff.

I don’t know whether it’s more difficult to shed staff in the public sector, I’m guessing so, but things can always be improved.
Click to expand...
Broken IT systems in the NHS are nothing new
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn
 
tiggers said:
It needs a long term plan, the problem is any ‘reforms’ in your lifetime have been way too short term oriented. Leaving it to run as it is regardless of the funding situation will never work well. Anyway as ever on here I can see I’m wasting my time having an opinion different to ‘just throw money at it’ so I’ll get back to doing something more productive.
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This is the problem. Any organisation needs to change with the times & the demands upon it.

Germany have a different system to ours as do France, it’s probably better at some things & worse in others.

I read that the NHS could take 44% of GDP by 2024, is this sustainable?

Just get the IT sorted at the very least & it would save millions. How many times do you get asked the same question when going through triage in ER?

We probably have enough Drs but they get bogged down in endless paperwork when a functioning CRM system would really help.
 
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