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The end of Mana Audio

I questioned your moderation Tony, because I could not work out if you had a side you were supporting, your deletion of posts and banning members had me question the free speech comment, and I asked if you had contradicted yourself, I have no way of telling who is deleting some of the posts which appear in my inbox, so cannot tell if you are taking some comments out and leaving others in.

Ok, fair enough, I’ll clarify things a little: (a) no, I don’t have a side, though I do obviously have great sympathy for those parted from their money, (b) most of the posts I deleted were insults aimed at JW, so my moderation actually supported your point of view, and (c) no one has been banned as a result of anything to do with this thread or with Mana as a company. The person who spoon fed you post #530 word by word has never been welcome on this forum due to behaviour demonstrated elsewhere.

Tony.
 
Steve

I guess that by contributing to this thread you want to support Mana. I don't think this is the best way to do it and I think you're making the situation for Mana worse. Please, take some time out.

Peter
 
When someone makes a comment to someone, and someone else gives a nasty reply, then the first post which has been responded to is deleted it makes admin look bad, either that or some of the members you seem to support are taking the piss.

Ok, I think I’m beginning to understand this now – if you have email notification turned on you will get the very first draft of a post, and on a fairly high octane thread such as this many users reconsider shortly after and delete or edit their own post. It’s easy for me as I can see the deletion stubs so I know who has removed what, but I guess it can look confusing from your end. As far as I can recall I have deleted about 20-25 posts throughout the whole life of this thread, i.e. a minute quantity of the whole. I hope this fully explains matters.

Tony.
 
Some of you guys really need a reality check. Tony, you included.

We seem to have a single proven fact in this thread (if you regard the copy of the notice to strike off published elsewhere and referenced as a fact).

We have claims by some that they have paid money and not received goods (sorry Heuer but I do not know you and no evidence has been shown. I do however commend your extremely reasonable approach in dealing with this.). Lets accept that there is some grounds for dispute between here.

We then have many people (Tony you are as guilty as the rest) seemingly demanding to know what is going on and full of indignation about censorship on the Mana forum.

1) It is nobodies business but Mana and the other parties in any dispute. Nobody else has any right to know.
2) If you really think that any company website/forum (be it Mana or any other) is going to allow posts questioning ability to supply stay on there for long you are incredibly naive. If the company is experiencing difficulties then any such information can only make matters far worse. Possibly to the detrement of the very people who are creditors of the company (e.g. if someone were trying to sell a company to another company which was willing to take on the existing customer base and liabilities. BTW I am not saying this is happening merely using it as one example of why any such posts on a company website will have minimal life expectancy).
3) If things have already reached the stage of legal proceedings the last thing anyone should do who is directly involved in them is start posting anything relevant to the case on this or any other internet forum.

Tony. I have no problem with you wanting to warn PFM members about a possible serious situation and I think a sticky post on the forum with about 3 posts from this thread would fit the bill admirably. I do however think that the type of lynch mob mentality being displayed by a number of people posting on this thread does no favours to anyone involved. The one person who may have some kind of justification for such displays of indignation, Heuer, has been admirable in his restraint and is showing many others a more reasonable way to behave.

I think the line about wanting to host an uncensored area for debating the topic has one fundamental flaw. The instant you have one person who is banned from posting you have censorship. I'm not advocating letting back any banned members but please don't labour under the apprehension that there is some bigger, noble, anti-censorship rationale to this thread when you already have a censored forum.
 
On the topic of deleting posts. You are right. The effect at this end is confusing. For the future would it be possible for the moderators to delete the content of the post and replace it with a standard line along the lines of "Post content deleted by the moderator" but leave the actual post/poster in the thread trail. You could even provide a reason (rude defammatory....) if you felt so inclined. That way people could better gauge what is and is not acceptable. From a readers pesrpective it would certainly be better than just nuking the post so others appear wholly out of any form of context.
 
I thought that this is supposed to be a hi-fi forum; some of this is kindergarten stuff.

Simon F
 
neil said:
Nobody else has any right to know.

well I sincerly hope that trading standards tell you to **** off if you find yourself in that position with a company who take money and don't deliver your order, because you had no right to know that they were in difficulties or a cowboy builder , for example
 
neil said:
Nobody else has any right to know.

Excuse me Neil, just a small point of correction, Mana is a registered Ltd company -- everybody has a right to know -- by law.
 
I'm going to bring a packed lunch and watch the events unfold.

All these new folk posting here is certainly making it lively!

DS
 
neil said:
On the topic of deleting posts. You are right. The effect at this end is confusing. For the future would it be possible for the moderators to delete the content of the post and replace it with a standard line along the lines of "Post content deleted by the moderator" but leave the actual post/poster in the thread trail. You could even provide a reason (rude defammatory....) if you felt so inclined.
Sure. My rate is 50UKP/hour. I take PayPal.
 
We seem to have a single proven fact in this thread (if you regard the copy of the notice to strike off published elsewhere and referenced as a fact).

Neil, I understand and can respect your perspective, but I think you will find that the majority of hard evidence has been kept out of this thread as a mark of respect. I don’t think it is in Mana Audio Ltd or the preceding Mana Acoustics Ltd’s interest for information publicly available from Companies House, their published accounts, County Court Judgements etc to be dragged across this forum. This information is obviously available to any party that is interested via the appropriate legal channels as it is for any Ltd company, but I have to admit I am personally very grateful it is not currently on public view here. On a thread such as this one has to be thankful for small mercies.

We then have many people (Tony you are as guilty as the rest) seemingly demanding to know what is going on and full of indignation about censorship on the Mana forum.

I am making no demands, just allowing free discussion. I am trying to keep myself as far away from the actual core topic as possible – my comments here are primarily in defence of my moderation approach and my forum. To be honest I have very little personal interest in Mana Audio / Acoustics products or people and I am trying my hardest not to get dragged in.

Tony. I have no problem with you wanting to warn PFM members about a possible serious situation and I think a sticky post on the forum with about 3 posts from this thread would fit the bill admirably.

I have covered this point in depth earlier – any such statement would require direct editorial input from myself in the form of selecting what information is pertinent to the topic and what is not. I am simply not prepared to get involved / entrenched in this issue to that level. My role here is simply as the owner of this forum (i.e. publisher of other people’s content), I do not want to have any creative input to this story, and as such I only answer questions such as yours when pushed and when they reflect on my forum.

My hope is that the thread will soon have simply run it’s course and drop from view. I am tired of it now and the amount of time I am having to spend moderating is really eating into my own resources (there is currently a huge pile of records in the middle of the room that won’t clean, grade and list themselves).

On the topic of deleting posts. You are right. The effect at this end is confusing. For the future would it be possible for the moderators to delete the content of the post and replace it with a standard line along the lines of "Post content deleted by the moderator" but leave the actual post/poster in the thread trail. You could even provide a reason (rude defammatory....) if you felt so inclined.

I accept your point as being valid but the current situation is has not been arrived at without thought. On the very rare occasion a moderator or I delete a post the action is not made public, it is IMHO something private between the moderator and the poster. Making such an action public only runs the risk of adding what could be seen as humiliation or punishment to the moderation action and this is not my goal. This way the post just disappears and no one is hurt (apart perhaps from myself who probably gets the blame for whacking way more posts than I actually do!). I’d guess that more than 95% of vanishing / edited posts are by the user themselves). I very, very rarely delete posts (other than routine maintenance pruning of ancient obsolete threads to save database space).

I hope this answers at least some of your points.

Tony.
 
fox said:
Excuse me Neil, just a small point of correction, Mana is a registered Ltd company -- everybody has a right to know -- by law.
Shareholders have a right to know, creditors have a right to know, nobody else has any right to anything.

What's pissing people off is that JW won't play your silly games, personally I don't blame him.

A more pathetic piece of faux self-righteous indignation, on behalf of the one person who might have good cause and who has been pretty much silent on the affair except for early posts, would be hard to imagine. What is even worse is that some of the most venomous attacks are either from mana apostates who have a personal dislike of JW for past slights, real or imagined, or from those who never liked him in the first place.

All this high-minded "people have a right to know" talk is pure bullshit. Most of this is driven by malice and nothing else.
 
For those of you who were / are really interested John Watson has made a statement on the Mana forum.

Ian
 
Ian, if you would like to publish John's statement in full here please feel free to do so.

Tony.
 
IanW said:
For those of you who were / are really interested John Watson has made a statement on the Mana forum.

Sadly it's only browsable by members and my account was deleted for some reason, perhaps the forum should be reopened for all to see?

-- Ian
 
Cav said:
which is a matter for companies house to pursue...

I'm not denying that I am disagreeing with what you are saying elsewhere:

Shareholders have a right to know, creditors have a right to know, nobody else has any right to anything.

... this is not the case: the responsibilities of a Registered Ltd company are that it has to (by law) make its accounts public; that's why people do indeed have a right to know.
 
If accounts are not available, companies house should take action, but the main point of most of the posts were not about accounts, were they.

This attempt at a smokescreen to hide the forum vigilantism won't work.
 


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