The best audio system on earth?

[gustav_errata]

I would guess that the annual sales volume of cheap tatty headphones and Bluetooth speakers far outstrips that of oligarch-level systems like this. So I think the response here is a little over the top. It's just insignificant and nothing to take offense to. Just ignore.

Or, think, we'll yeah if I had more money than I knew what to do with -- even after philanthropy, greasing the wheels of government, and whatever else I need to justify my actions in the thought experiment to myself -- I'd probably spend the GDP of a small nation on some speakers and firehose cables before I buy a pair of refurbed Tannoys and some coild-up bell wire off of a forum.

As for the preteens, they're taking the PC-component buying mentality of spec counting and joining forums like ASR to laugh at audiophiles in general.

 

[paulfromcamden]

Or, think, we'll yeah if I had more money than I knew what to do with -- even after philanthropy, greasing the wheels of government, and whatever else I need to justify my actions in the thought experiment to myself -- I'd probably spend the GDP of a small nation on some speakers and firehose cables before I buy a pair of refurbed Tannoys and some coild-up bell wire off of a forum.

Yeah who cares. But we can still point at their tacky geegaws and smirk right?

 

[gustav_errata]

Yeah who cares. But we can still point at their tacky geegaws and smirk right?

Permission granted

 

[hockman]

Hey, who cares about these stupid shows anyway? I find them vulgar, noisy and pretentious. They are targeted at a certain crowd, not the general public or the younger folk. I am more exasperated about the exaggerated coolness and sonic superiority of overpriced 'vinyls'. My last few vinyl reissues (of records that are hard to find and expensive) were a huge disappointment soundwise. These days, I go into a record store and make a beeline for the used CDs...

 

[John Phillips]

Meanwhile the Curve of diminishing returns lengthens out so far that the 1% change in SQ between 'truly excellent' at say 30000 quid for a system and 'the best' at nearing a million is about a mile away. The graphs height is 20cm.

Untitled by John Dutfield, on Flickr

I could quibble with the percentage scale and how quickly the curve rises towards 100%. That's a personal matter but on getting home from the recent show I thought my digital-only system, which in 2017 cost under £15k total new, completely matched digital from the Sonus Faber / Brinkmann / etc. system in the Symmetry Systems room (my show favourite). The equivalent digital-only components in the show, I guess, may have cost getting on for £100k. I have not heard better so for me I would put reaching at least the 90% mark lower down the cost axis.

An interesting question arises, though. And that is what if the vertical axis were "value" not "percentage of what's possible".

There would be a value peak somewhere along the cost axis. But where? Subjective for sure and perhaps more subjective than the vertical scale above (but that's still subjective IMHO). I think the peak would be in the range where the curve is marked "For me, Hi Fi and wonderful music reproduction live in this area." But exactly where? How low?

 

[Miss Ariel]

I could quibble with the percentage scale and how quickly the curve rises towards 100%. That's a personal matter but on getting home from the recent show I thought my digital-only system, which in 2017 cost under £15k total new, completely matched digital from the Sonus Faber / Brinkmann / etc. system in the Symmetry Systems room (my show favourite). The equivalent digital-only components in the show, I guess, may have cost getting on for £100k. I have not heard better so for me I would put reaching at least the 90% mark lower down the cost axis.

An interesting question arises, though. And that is what if the vertical axis were "value" not "percentage of what's possible".

There would be a value peak somewhere along the cost axis. But where? Subjective for sure and perhaps more subjective than the vertical scale above (but that's still subjective IMHO). I think the peak would be in the range where the curve is marked "For me, Hi Fi and wonderful music reproduction live in this area." But exactly where? How low?

John thought I would chip in with your comments about the Symmetary system being your favourite.
I didn't go to the show but one of the best show systems I have heard was at the HiFi News show at Windsor in 2018.
It was again a Symmetry system this time with a Brinkmann turntable and Trilogy pre and monoblocks into Magnepan 20.7
Mike Valentine from Chasing The Dragon was playing his recordings and talking about the microphones he used on them.
So it was educational as well
I have never heard such a fabulous system.The speakers just vanished
What I loved was it blew the Absolute Sounds system up the corridor out the water and their system was about 250 k
And just sounded lifeless very hifi sounding maybe it was that show music they play that is incredibly well recorded but you wouldn't play it at home.
The Symmetry system was about 100 k but stunning

 

[Rockmeister]

I wrote POWP because it’s less contentious, but the value is always at the point where the line starts to flatten on the shoulder of the curve. Had I spent more time thinking about the graph I think I would have drawn it so that that point would be around the 5-7000 mark, considering a system that was single source vinyl or cd, integrated amp and passive speakers. I totally agree that an iPhone and good active speaker system will draw a totally different curve.

 

[tuga]

Isn't there a huge paradox here in that the people who may appreciate the fidelity of these bling systems can't afford them whilst those that can ( without batting an eyelid)aren't necessarily buying them based on the same criteria or level of audiophile appreciation? Bastards.

I used to think the same about the tall and muscular pea-brained hunks getting all the cute (albeit often pea-brained) girls, back when I was in secondary school...

 

[Alex S]

Strange, I thought hifi geeks got all the best girls.

 

[Rockmeister]

Like HiFi systems...she's the one you want, or why would you have chosen her.
If that decision lasts a week or a lifetime rather defines who you are

 

[darrenyeats]

Strange, I thought hifi geeks got all the best girls.

And you were right ...!

 

[Columbo]

Like HiFi systems...she's the one you want, or why would you have chosen her.
If that decision lasts a week or a lifetime rather defines who you are

This last year I've had 3 amps and 3 sets of speakers taking each other on.

 

[Rockmeister]

Thanks for the confession. Brave of you.

 

[Colin L]

Re: winning the perfect girl, same as in Hifi, it’s the size of the knobs that count.

I am blessed (with a perfect wife).

 

[matt j]

I think that part of what has changed is that entry level kit has become so very good. Back in the 60s, 70s, even 80s, the music centres and one box record players were nasty sounding things. If you went even to a Dual 505, NAD and Diamonds you were a big step up. Better kit such as you describe was better again. But now you get decent quality lossless or even high rate MP3 files on your phone, as a source that's up there with an entry level CD, you put that through a Bluetooth speaker and it's *pretty good*. Buy separate amps, speakers etc? No thanks.

It's not just the kit that has changed but the whole attitude/trends of younger people, the same can be said for live music venues or night clubs and pubs dying on their arse, the old ways just aren't a mass participation event any more because young people have a different outlook on entertainment.

Music used to be a central tenet to most people's lives and a main source of not only entertainment but socialising, that has almost completely gone. Little wonder that hi-fi is an old man's game with the odd few outliers.

Social media, youtube, gym/health culture, netflix and other streaming TV services have all surpassed music as a central role in young people's lives. It's all well and good saying we need to make hi-fi attractive and attainable to the kids but it's so far off their radar as to be almost pointless. Even the ones who are interested are usually the quirky ones who would rather buy something vintage and different looking than a boggo Rega P1 etc.

 

[Woodface]

It's not just the kit that has changed but the whole attitude/trends of younger people, the same can be said for live music venues or night clubs and pubs dying on their arse, the old ways just aren't a mass participation event any more because young people have a different outlook on entertainment.

Music used to be a central tenet to most people's lives and a main source of not only entertainment but socialising, that has almost completely gone. Little wonder that hi-fi is an old man's game with the odd few outliers.

Social media, youtube, gym/health culture, netflix and other streaming TV services have all surpassed music as a central role in young people's lives. It's all well and good saying we need to make hi-fi attractive and attainable to the kids but it's so far off their radar as to be almost pointless. Even the ones who are interested are usually the quirky ones who would rather buy something vintage and different looking than a boggo Rega P1 etc.

I think proper hifi has always been a niche but the idea of having a stereo at home is far less prevalent now. Does it matter? I’m not sure it does.

Vinyl is ‘cool’ but I am not sure this has anything to do with music now.

Spotify & decent smart speaker is probably better than the vast majority of crap that people used to consider hifi back in the day.

 

[matt j]

Does it matter? I’m not sure it does.

It only matters to the industry and those making a living from it I suppose.

When I started work around 97/98 most of the older blokes I worked with on the shop floor had a hi-fi, not necessarily high end or expensive but a dedicated separates hi-fi and music collection, their lives pretty much revolved around music in one way or another whether that was whatever jobbing live band was playing at their local (pub goers every night of the week!) proper gigs or the pilgrimage to Monsters of Rock at Donington.

That's just not a thing any more.

 

[les24preludes]

Music used to be a central tenet to most people's lives and a main source of not only entertainment but socialising, that has almost completely gone. Little wonder that hi-fi is an old man's game with the odd few outliers.

I don't see it that way. The way I see it is that young people don't sit alone in a big chair right between two large speakers. They move a lot more and that's perfectly healthy.

If people want to have music in the background while they cook, socialise or whatever, then that's absolutely fine. It doesn't mean they don't still love music, though they'd probably pass on Bruckner. And if they want music on the move that's fine too.

I absolutely don't think there's anything doomy about the culture of younger generations. They are just as intelligent as we were. They just lead different lives to what we did. The focus is much more on video/visual media and the Internet. It's just different.

 

[matt j]

I don't see it that way. The way I see it is that young people don't sit alone in a big chair right between two large speakers. They move a lot more and that's perfectly healthy.

If people want to have music in the background while they cook, socialise or whatever, then that's absolutely fine. It doesn't mean they don't still love music, though they'd probably pass on Bruckner. And if they want music on the move that's fine too.

I absolutely don't think there's anything doomy about the culture of younger generations. They are just as intelligent as we were. They just lead different lives to what we did. The focus is much more on video/visual media and the Internet. It's just different.

No, it's a shift from music being a central/core part of life to a background role. Which is why most kids are happy with a pair of air pods and an iPhone.

 

[Woodface]

It only matters to the industry and those making a living from it I suppose.

When I started work around 97/98 most of the older blokes I worked with on the shop floor had a hi-fi, not necessarily high end or expensive but a dedicated separates hi-fi and music collection, their lives pretty much revolved around music in one way or another whether that was whatever jobbing live band was playing at their local (pub goers every night of the week!) proper gigs or the pilgrimage to Monsters of Rock at Donington.

That's just not a thing any more.

I’ve always been in a massive minority on this front, I think we overestimate the general public having record collections back in the day. In reality a lot of people had some records but very few had more than, say, 50 LPs. It’s not really needed now, it’s just different times.