The best audio system on earth?
- Thread starter karlsushi
- Start date
and no offence taken!
herb
brain's right hemisphere
Sorry but that sounds dreadful through my Grado headphones. In the original video the only realistic sound came from the live three ladies demo at the end.
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
I enjoy such videos as a reminder of when I was there in the room but don't think they serve any purpose at all in demonstrating sound quality... recorded on goodness know what microphone onto goodness knows what device (usually a mobile phone in both cases) and played back on goodnesss knows what speakers/'phones through goodness knows what DAC and amp.
herb
brain's right hemisphere
I agree but even so you get a surprisingly good idea of the overall sound. DIFFERENCES despite the replay kit used. The three ladies live show was the only sound I could live with. It was so pure.
Columbo
pfm Member
Rockmeister
pfm Member
not too testing a song]
what about some Mahler?
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
I'm conscious that one should not derail threads., and it might be better to leave it but FWIW
On the first sentence, I suppose it depends what you mean by "require". I would personally not think one needed an ABX to compare two speakers it being very clear that speakers can be distinguished. But some people like Floyde Toole would of course argue that you should carry out double blind testing on speakers in order to ascertain genuine preference based only on sonic differences. [the issues are of course different].
Otherwise your question seems to be based on some odd premises about there being a clear critical cut off point at the level at which one would require actual evidence to believe a report. In some context you always need it, in others it would depend on how surprising the report was.
As for "determining the limits of another's perception"
I don't claim any expertise but I have bothered to read some of the basic literature. There are well established JND's for amplitude, frequency etc as a range of literature on as for example the audibility of jitter and of course lots of research on masking. And of course equal loudness curves etc. I could not regurgitate the whole literature on the limits of human perception as currently understood, nor do I think that it would be useful.
I don't think you need to worry where the exact boundary lies in order to require persuasion that a difference below say -110dB or any difference over 20kHz is audible. Equally anyone who can be bothered to acquaint themselves with the basic literature (ie pretty much no one) knows how much weight is accorded to anecdotal evidence of perceptual discrimination.
The beauty/horror of of all this is that it runs together
1) how people might wish to enjoy a hobby; and
2) whether anyone might give any credence to a perceptual claim which seems surprising
3) whether anyone would take as serious evidence *any* perceptual claim made outside of structured testing.
And on that note. I think it best to leave this thread.
John Phillips
pfm Member
That's the problem with shows. I have my list of demanding material that tests a system against my concert-going experience. It is intended to reveal when a system does something that does not sound plausible. Plausible not necessarily being "accurate" compared to my experience in any one concert hall, but sounding as though I might have heard the material in some reasonable concert hall or other, with the usual variability of the various venues.
Symphonic Mahler is in my list. However I don't really like to suggest playing material that works for my minority taste but might not be appreciated in a busy show room.
camverton
pfm Member
Curiously, going back 50 years and Mahler, particularly the Solti cycle, resounded from the rooms and down the corridors of hifi shows.
Rockmeister
pfm Member
whereI first heard it in fact and on a Garrard/SME/Shure/Quad/Tannoy system. Lovely it were.
Well the sound was, but Mahler?
Not so big a fan to this day
I think my comment was mostly about my suspicion that demos of 'easy' music on big valve amps can mean they are not quite so at ease with high density orchestral.
But I admit a bias.
Maybe they were, I think that this is an indicator of where a section of the hifi industry is going. Watches and cars have done the same for men, just as shoes and handbags have for women. Fine. If a Russian oligarch wants to swan about in a Rolls while his wife has a $1M handbag or two and some shoes for $100k, let them. If he wants a $100k set of speakers, it's his money, and he can buy a Richard Mille watch with jewels, moon dust or I don't give too much of a toss what. The enthusiasts are, or should be, spending less on something that performs better.
cb01
AES Member, Retired A/V Forensic Professional
You really only needed to type the part in bold to answer my questions. Thanks fr the response.
Your verbiage "whether anyone would take as serious..." seems to indicate that you think, and think others should as well, that "*any* perceptual claim made outside of structured testing" should be regarded as decidedly UNserious.
I don't agree. Others aren't required to be delusional in order for my worldview to not fall apart.
cb01
AES Member, Retired A/V Forensic Professional
I was at this show in Dallas and heard every Borreson speaker present. I actually heard every single room, across Friday and Saturday.
Can you enlighten me on what speaker(s) you think will perform "better"?
How about we start with some very large Tannoys with DSP, or some ESLs. I am very sure that one or both of those will do *some things* "better" than the oligarch specials. Just like a single seat racing car will make a Rolls Royce look stupid on a track.
I haven't heard the oligarch specials, but I know that we don't all hear the same things, and that price is no guarantee of quality. So is a $100k speaker "the best in the world, at everything"? I doubt it very much.
Tony L
Administrator
I’m always curious what technology or innovation the LOLprice stuff is bringing to the table. I’ve no real issue with paying for genuine innovation. Sadly almost always the answer is none and it is just 1950s or 60s technology dressed up with a load of unnecessary mass and bling so it looks like it belongs in Trump, Putin or some Saudi monarch’s apartment. Gold plate, alligator skin and diamonds doesn’t make a better Leica or Rolex, yet some will pay for that vulgarity. This tier of audio holds zero interest for me. It is just Veblen goods, and to my mind actually damaging to the industry as it just shouts wealth and exclusion to anyone just popping in to see if home audio is for them.
Boutique mains cables and fuses did the damage to the industry long ago. Take anyone from "outside" the circle, show them a $1000 mains lead, tell them that this is worth having for home audio, and don't be surprised if they look at you the way I look at a Creationist who tells me that the world is less than 20,000 years old.
foxwelljsly
Me too, I ate one sour too.
What music were they playing?