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The 2023 Formula One Season

flutteringwow said:
lol, I remember when people 'criticised' Lewis's driving and winning for basically the 'best car', but now those opposing god complex idol worshippers not saying the same about VER. Funny times.

I certainly won't ever refer to VER as 'one of the best' far from it, but I'd never refer to him negatively like those did about Lewis either. He is winning, and they have crafted a car for him. It takes more than just a driver, I've always said that inc about Merc and Lewis. That's how it goes and it will continue for the next at least two seasons, so there is praise there. Merc wont be able to even come remotely close to making up the deficit in upgrades in my opinion, so the best bit of F1 now will be when the Americans put on their shows :)

However, RB have their success off the back of multiple instances of controversy, so it's a shame they didn't earn it all the way, then my respect would be a lot higher for them as a team. It was always said their budget overspend will project into multiple seasons ahead.

Lewis managed to move up 7 places yesterday in a dogcar, VER moved up 8 in a bullet, worth acknowledging.
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There has always been controversy in F1. Remember the Mansel vs Senna in Estoril, or Senna vs Prost in Suzuka?
 
tuga said:
There has always been controversy in F1. Remember the Mansel vs Senna in Estoril, or Senna vs Prost in Suzuka?
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Mansell ;)

F1 needs a little controversy otherwise a lot of interest dries up. And it certainly used to fill the longer gaps between races before the calendar expanded. Whether it’s drivers not liking each other, contracts being broken, outright cheating, unsafe tyres… the FIA and sponsors love it.
 
Cav said:
Russell 4th; Hamilton 6th.
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I don't understand why you and Bob are such broken records WRT Hamilton.
https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2023/drivers.html
Hamilton and Russel are both great drivers - I'd give Hamilton the edge for now, but time is on Russel's side. There's no doubt that Verstappen is a great driver, but it would be really interesting to see all of the drivers in the same car, because Alonso is clearly still pretty special.

It's a real shame that the car change has simply resulted in a formerly utterly dominant car (Merc) being replaced by a new utterly dominant car (Red Bull), but Red Bull did tough out several very lean years. I wonder to what extent the Honda engine factor's into Red Bull's success (partially / not at all ?)

Some good racing yesterday, but the rest of the grid can only compete for 3rd place.
 
I don’t understand the Hamilton fanboy **** fest on here where he’s treated like a god as they perceive him righting wrongs around the world whilst driving racing cars.
He was just a dominant racing driver in a dominant team, like many before him, who has now lost his edge to a young pretender in the same car.
 
sean99 said:
It's a real shame that the car change has simply resulted in a formerly utterly dominant car (Merc) being replaced by a new utterly dominant car (Red Bull).
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The really annoying thing is that by 2021 the Merc was no longer dominant, RB had caught up and we had an epic season as a result. Seems was ever thus…. :D
 
Seems to me that Adrian Newey is a bit of a genius with a Midas touch.
How much of RB’s & MV’s success is down to his arrival? He was (I think) instrumental with their success back in the Vettel era, as well as major success with Williams & McLaren. I’m surprised he isn’t getting more of the plaudits for MV’s runaway success.
 
manicatel said:
Seems to me that Adrian Newey is a bit of a genius with a Midas touch.
How much of RB’s & MV’s success is down to his arrival? He was (I think) instrumental with their success back in the Vettel era, as well as major success with Williams & McLaren. I’m surprised he isn’t getting more of the plaudits for MV’s runaway success.
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My post #934 in part answers your question.

But to put it all in perspective, without Adrian RBR may well have won nothing. He has been the stand out TD and aerodynamic concept genius for the past 30 years.
 
Bob McC said:
I don’t understand the Hamilton fanboy **** fest on here where he’s treated like a god as they perceive him righting wrongs around the world whilst driving racing cars.
He was just a dominant racing driver in a dominant team, like many before him, who has now lost his edge to a young pretender in the same car.
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But you never analyse or discuss the racing. You only post "Well done Max" or criticisms of HAM. A sort of anti fanboi and it is just as valueless as unthinking praise IMO. Look at tigger's post about VER, a great example of recognition of talent plus some analysis, try some posts like that. I have never given unthinking praise to HAM and you are the only one referring him to being a god. I am a fan of course but I like to think a pretty balanced one and I have been watching F1 since 1980 or so. You stated RUS outraced HAM, maybe I was being pedantic to say he did not outrace but instead out qualified him. HAM and RUS both had a pretty good race, way better that expected. ALO was outstanding and the Ferrari's sucked - again.

VER had a great race, his tyre management was god (Hamilton) like - see what I did there - and his pace was astounding as you'd expect from a dominant driver in a dominant team. PER had a poor race, he was barely within half a second of VER all weekend but still 3/10ths ahead of any other car. I somewhat tongue in cheek asked after Baku if he had a title shot. We got the answer yesterday. Clearly not even close.

PS
RUS is fab, I love that he is bringing it to HAM. I think it is still nip and tuck between them. Give them a competitive car either later this year (unlikely) of next year we will really see where they sit.
 
Bob McC said:
I don’t understand the Hamilton fanboy **** fest on here where he’s treated like a god as they perceive him righting wrongs around the world whilst driving racing cars.
He was just a dominant racing driver in a dominant team, like many before him, who has now lost his edge to a young pretender in the same car.
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its ‘fanboi’ .

I know this has been literally spelled out to you numerous times before by me and others but I am more than happy to do it again and again if you wish.

You never to do seem to acknowledge nor respect how Lewis got to his position and the adversity he experienced and the challenges he had to take on aside from becoming the best driver in the world in an upper class white privileged sport.

Nothing wrong with appreciating a person who made it, against more adversity that any other driver has experienced before, to the top of F1 and whom uses his platform to rally against social injustice and political issues that are often ignored or shelved.

That's a true sports person and role model for me and that's in part why he has loyal and supportive fans, because being the driver a car isn't always what it's all.

So he was never ‘just’ anything, in fact, for one, he was the first and only Black F1 driver. If you are able to understand how that is a huge thing then you have your the answer to your question, if you don’t, well my hypothesis about you has always been correct.

Its not about ‘god’ anything, it's about respect and admiration for those achievements. Those achievements btw, the highest record scorer/breaker in F1 history.

Anything there you'd like to respond to Bob? does that settle your confusion?
 
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tuga said:
There has always been controversy in F1. Remember the Mansel vs Senna in Estoril, or Senna vs Prost in Suzuka?
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I dont remember no, being far too young to remember, but I am aware!

I like the controversy and the characters, i wouldn't change Whingey Spice for the world! However the controversy that was means I will never respect them as a team, thats just my personal feelings.

..and lets be fair, if there was never a rule change than RBR probably wouldnt be winning. It took that to make it happen.

Still as i said earlier, I give them their moment without much criticism right now.
 
IanW said:
My post #934 in part answers your question.

But to put it all in perspective, without Adrian RBR may well have won nothing. He has been the stand out TD and aerodynamic concept genius for the past 30 years.
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I'll bet that the late Sir Frank Williams and Patrick Head are kicking themselves for not offering him a share in the company, as he wanted.
 
tones said:
I'll bet that the late Sir Frank Williams and Patrick Head are kicking themselves for not offering him a share in the company, as he wanted.
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I'm sure Williams would offer him a share now :D All joking aside it's sad to see Williams and McLaren reduced to backmarkers. They were so dominant in the 80s and 90s.
 
Cav said:
My point was that cuttings analysis of relative performance in the race was incorrect - as demonstrated by the result. Nothing more.
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Value add to their respective starting positions was the point. Not that it matters much though.
 
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