advertisement


TECHNICS SL1200/1210. HYPE OR FACT?

Doh, they manage not to show the most interesting bit: How is the armbase attached to the plinth?

However, on another photo on that webpage you see a brochure lying around with a picture implying that you use the two screws of the hinge for this.

Nice idea but I am skeptical whether those two rather flimsy screws provide a stable enough basis for the tone arm...
 
Having spent some time poking around under the bonnet of the 1210, I would say that the hinge bracket is not a good enough foundation to sit a tonearm board into. This looks like a useful way to get a quick comparison against the stock arm, but not a serious alternative IMO.
 
Apologies for pasting this from comments I've made elsewhere, but I feel it may be of some interest (hopefully!) to those wondering where, in my very humble opinion, the 1210 sits in the grand scheme. Before reading the following mutterings of yours truly, I should add that I will be trying the Time-Step psu because I have been assured it is mandatory to make the Technics sing. We shall see.

Well the weekend has been spent doing a whole lot of listening and setting up. The OL armboard doesn't sit flat to the plinth properly so I had a couple of hours' yesterday finally getting it all level - the azimuth on the cartridge was a fair way out (it was 1mm difference in height across the headshell) so clearly wasn't helping matters.

Where do we sit now in sound & music terms though?

Listen to the Technics (in its current form) for a short 15 min 'fix' and it sounds stunning. It appears to have no lag whatsoever in the bass, it's faaaaaast on transients and really lets the Dorian show its stuff in terms of lightning-quick attack on drumkit etc. It shows some quite stratling sonic pyrotechnics and is to my mind beyond criticism as to its power and punch. The HFW test of this set-up was spot on in its observations (my rig is pretty much identical apart from the mat and Isonoe feet).

There is one thing which does bother me though, and that one thing is probably the reason why I don't think it'll end up staying.

As I said, on the 'quick' listen it shows itself to be extremely impressive (hence some of my comments above) but on longer-term listening it fails to satisfy. Why? It simply doesn't allow music to breathe. I've put on records which I know inside-out (some piano music which I know well because I've played some of it myself) and the Technics tends all dynamic shading with the same brush. To use a Tom Fletcher-esque analogy it seems to want to crack everything with a sledgehammer be it a paving slab or a small egg. This tends to kill rhythmic patterns - I'll try to explain: Take a standard-issue 4 or 8 bar phrase - within those phrases lie 'moments' which are either forced or held back and in doing so it lets the music gain shape and interest. It simply makes the music sound, well, like 'music'. Because the 1210 is charging around hitting everything with a baseball bat these moments get lost and all sound the same. There also seems to be little if any decay - body resonance on solo piano isn't very convincing and there's not much sense of 'being there' either.

This is going to sound slightly abstract (sorry!) but on some records I'll get my Clarinet out and play along with the music, simply because the system makes me want to join in the session. It's all good fun. I haven't felt the urge to do this with the 1210 as it's not communicating that sense of music-making and the energy contained within it. I just find my mind starts to wander after 20 mins or so.

Now, one could of course argue that 'well the Rega arm's not right for it' or 'you should use a different mat' or 'the Dorian's no good for it' etc etc. My answer to the arm issue is that every time I've listened to a Rega turntable (from Planar 2 up to the P9) it has an absorbing and fun way of making music enjoyable. Sure they have their faults but they use the same arm as mine and do a perfectly good job. The Dorian, in every other turntable I've used it in, has an effervescence which is truly addictive and I know from experience it can do the subtlety thing really well too. Not much gets away from it.

Of course I could go on and add the psu but I have no desire to - all the stuff I've done to it so far is bolt-on and can be removed with no evidence of it having been there. From previous experience, once a turntable has set its stall out it doesn't tend to shift that far away from it, despite any mods it may receive on its journey. A good example of this was probably when I added a Lingo to my LP12 many years ago - clarity improved but the turntable's character remained strong, perhaps even more so. Changing the arm on the 1210 has brought about a stunning difference in terms of clarity and dynamics (believe me when I say the difference over the std arm is huge) but the turntable's musical qualities are largely the same. If one likes what the Technics can do from the outset (and forgive its slightly wayward and coarse presentation, knowing this can be cured pretty much entirely, and not at much cost) then it's a great choice, and for the money represents superb value especially as I feel it can compete with stuff at several times its cost - you just have to like what it does, and if you do, then it's brilliant. For me though it's ultimately somewhat unrewarding.

Just because I felt I had to I put the Lyra in the LP12 late sunday afternoon which proved to be a very interesting exercise. Admittedly it didn't have as much punch and drive as the 1210 and didn't sound quite as detailed (it wasn't far off though) but for sheer musical enjoyment it completely murdered it.

I put on Rachmaninov 2nd Symphony (LSO/Previn) - a proper goosebumper if there ever was one - second movement. The upper strings and woodwind enter with their theme (after the French Horns' initial motif) which is in a quick, almost scherzo style. On the Linn, one can here the shape of each phrase clearly, which is down to the LP12's ability to separate the dynamics and rhythmic shape. It makes the listener fully aware of what the players are doing (ie shaping the phrase) and why (ie the composer wrote it!). On the 1210 it's completely missing. There's little or no subtlety in its dynamic separation of low-level detail. Roll out the big guns (concert bass drum and lower strings) and it sounds awesome in terms of wham-bam - it's an extremely powerful performer - but it feels like it needs this to impress, but is unable to do the stuff that makes music...music.

Still, when the psu arrives it will be very interesting to see if it can help this aspect of its performance. I hope it does, as if it can it will make for a very persuasive package. If not, it will be a lesson learned. :)

Ah the old live with it factor comes into play. I personally don't see the point in sinking a bunch of cash into modding budget tables (actually it seems the SL1200 is the new Rega 3 in that Regard!). Why not just buy a table that already has a good arm and an outboard power supply upgrade inherent in the design? If a 1200 can be good bone stock then it's a good budget table, if it needs this and that added, it is no longer a budget table.
 
The Herbies mat does a lot to tone the ballistic quality down and doesn't suit other turntables - at least if my SL-150 is anything like its descendant. Unlike the 150, which places the transformer in an under-plinth screened "can," the 1200mk2 onwards places it directly under the platter, which may well subtly affect what a good mc cartridge is doing (God, the black steel Allen bolts we used in the early days were bad enough when compared to the stainless steel ones used since the mid eighties).

I'm sure the mat, feet and power supply upgrades becoming available are essential to lift the deck from something basic into something interesting. I'll pass on the sooper dooper bearings and platters for now, as their costs take the humble Techie into far more exalted territory - and some rather good UK designed and made alternatives ;)
 
Correct me if i am wrong but niether the Roksan Xerxes or the LP12 are the same today spec wise as ' say the 1986 version's , psu , bearing, etc 'etc ' have all been upgraded .

Even the Majik LP12 is far removed from say the 1995 entry level deck , the stock Techie happens to be a good sound design ' with quite a few compromises built in which Panasonic never envisaged would need to be improved upon , being so huge a hit with the DJ community from the late 70's on.

What i am getting at is , where is the problem upgrading this deck with bearings and psu's etc ' if Panasonic had introduced the timestep psu and bearing ,and so on ! would that have been more acceptable ? and we are not talking insane silly money here £300 for a psu and a much improved main bearing for £175 .

Some people hate it ' some love it ' its the same with many other decks , you have a choice .
 
Correct me if i am wrong but niether the Roksan Xerxes or the LP12 are the same today spec wise as ' say the 1986 version's , psu , bearing, etc 'etc ' have all been upgraded .

Even the Majik LP12 is far removed from say the 1995 entry level deck , the stock Techie happens to be a good sound design ' with quite a few compromises built in which Panasonic never envisaged would need to be improved upon , being so huge a hit with the DJ community from the late 70's on.

What i am getting at is , where is the problem upgrading this deck with bearings and psu's etc ' if Panasonic had introduced the timestep psu and bearing ,and so on ! would that have been more acceptable ? and we are not talking insane silly money here £300 for a psu and a much improved main bearing for £175 .

Some people hate it ' some love it ' its the same with many other decks , you have a choice .

I'm not a Technics hater, my point was if a slew of upgrades cost more than the table itself, it is no longer a budget table. Cottage industries which sprout up to change existing designs are of course going to find lots of things wrong with the existing design- the more they find, the more money they can make. According to them, in the case of the SL1200, let's see- the only things lacking are the power supply, bearing, feet, mat, and tonearm! Technics should start selling it in a deck only version with an outboard power supply, think they'd get any takers?
 
I personally don't see the point in sinking a bunch of cash into modding budget tables
That's the point, the 1200 never *was* a budget table, it just doesn't have boutique pricing.

Why not just buy a table that already has a good arm and an outboard power supply upgrade inherent in the design? If a 1200 can be good bone stock then it's a good budget table

It does have a decent arm;
The buyers aren't interested in separate PSUs;
It *is* good bone stock.:) This doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

I don't think Technics would get a lot of takers without an arm/PSU etc a this isn't their target market, they want the DJ/mixer to buy it, and that's what 90% of their buyers are. The audiophile bit is just a happy coincidence, it was always intended to be a high quality DJ/broadcast table, a job it does very well.

I just don't think I could live with the way the thing looks in the lounge. Shame, because I listened to one playing "Folk Singer" with a very good arm and cart and it was fantastic.
 
That's the point, the 1200 never *was* a budget table, it just doesn't have boutique pricing.



It does have a decent arm;
The buyers aren't interested in separate PSUs;
It *is* good bone stock.:) This doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

I don't think Technics would get a lot of takers without an arm/PSU etc a this isn't their target market, they want the DJ/mixer to buy it, and that's what 90% of their buyers are. The audiophile bit is just a happy coincidence, it was always intended to be a high quality DJ/broadcast table, a job it does very well.

I just don't think I could live with the way the thing looks in the lounge. Shame, because I listened to one playing "Folk Singer" with a very good arm and cart and it was fantastic.

I was meaning continue to offer the SL1200 complete package for its broadcast/DJ/Scratch market, but also offer it as a deck only (maybe sans some of the features) plus include an outboard power supply for the specialty audio market. I believe plenty of People would buy this, Technics should do it. They have already been successful at marketing special versions of the 1200 (The SE "Gold" among others). This is certainly possible. Sometimes the cottage industries do have an influence on manufacturers. Rega curiously upgraded the RB 300 arm wire amid all the companies offering Rega arm rewires.
 
I just don't think I could live with the way the thing looks in the lounge.

Mine is looking tasty. My LP12 has been in its box for a few months now. When I get a new arm I'm going to sit them side by side, like a beauty contest.

IMG_9087.jpg


BTW, can someone please tell me how to get images to embed, as they should according to the instructions in the FAQ?
 
That's the point, the 1200 never *was* a budget table, it just doesn't have boutique pricing.



It does have a decent arm;
The buyers aren't interested in separate PSUs;
It *is* good bone stock.:) This doesn't mean it can't be improved upon.

I don't think Technics would get a lot of takers without an arm/PSU etc a this isn't their target market, they want the DJ/mixer to buy it, and that's what 90% of their buyers are. The audiophile bit is just a happy coincidence, it was always intended to be a high quality DJ/broadcast table, a job it does very well.

I just don't think I could live with the way the thing looks in the lounge. Shame, because I listened to one playing "Folk Singer" with a very good arm and cart and it was fantastic.

I quite like it in an industrial sort of way , its not as pretty as my old Linn or gorgeously sculptured Voyd , but its certainly very functional.
 
OMG an Ekos on a techie ' how's it sounding , i wondered whether it would be a good match or not ?.

I'd say the SL1210 looks handsome with an Ekos, whereas the Sondek looks classic and refined. I do quite like the way the Technics is a wolf in sheep's clothing, once you Timestep it and replace the arm. I have found that the arm mount is absolutely critical, and results range from dry and awful to possible Sondek-killer. Decoupling is the key, as was explained to me by Mark at Origin Live. I prefer a cheap Greek mounting plate to the Timestep one, and I use washers to decouple the arm collar from the arm plate while maintaining rigidity. Decoupling may also be the reason why I prefer the deck with all the bolts removed from underneath. YMMV. But the Timestep PS makes a big difference, and so does replacing the arm with something a bit special like a pristine Ekos 2. Apparently the deck is even better with a new bearing and platter. I may try that one day, but it's already rock steady, detailed and very tuneful.
 
Thanks

I have the Timestep psu and also the main bearing upgrade too ' with an SME 309 fitted with the later armboard ' which is far superior to the original board Dave supplied .

Set up is critical ,the SME has a nicely decoupled mounting arangement anyway and i believe is perfect match for the deck , glad you like yours ! i would recommend getting the lower cost timestep bearing and instead of replacing the platter , get a copper ' rubato mat to finnish off nicely .
 
does anyone have any rumble and wow and flutter measurements for these great upgrades?

I can't hear rumble, but I did measure wow and flutter with my ears, and found it to be significantly better than a Radikal Sondek SE, and perhaps even the Amadeus. In other words, sustained piano or guitar notes appear to stay in tune even when big drums are slowly beating. It's like a CD, but with texture.
 
Rumble and wow figures are already as low as they need to be !

Upgrading the psu and bearing is all about improving the sonics and taking away the compromises ' imagine an LP12 with a chunky humming transformer sat right next to the main bearing .

But i believe now that some of the upgrades available are perhaps going to far , and like i said the £175 bearing and £300 psu of any variety as they all sound subtly different , is all you need to spend ! other that the feet (Isonoes) and mat .

the cost of my 1210 less arm is still under that of the current Spacedeck (ace) i think its called now which at the price is a cracker as is the Avid Diva , there are many others i have not yet heard , but i like what this deck does well ' it seems to hold everything rock steady and in time with each other , but there is no nice warm glow ! which i can understand many prefer in other decks .
 
Notes 'stay in tune' on Tech 1200 / 10 without needing to change the PSU.

When I replaced the power supply I noticed straight away more drive, solidity, clarity and space. As you say, the tunefulness was already very good.

I didn't notice any improvement with the isonoe feet, but then my wall shelf is mounted into brick on the far wall from the speakers, so isolation was already excellent.

The only thing that I felt the Amadeus did less well than this Techy was detail in the mid-to-high frequencies. Perhaps it's the oil absorbing too much energy, or the WT armtube itself, but I prefer gritty detailed texture to smooth tones, so that may be a matter of taste. I don't hear that smoothness in live orchestral music, so it sounds less real to me. I prefer my music 'warts and all'.
 


advertisement


Back
Top