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subwoofer advice

MattSPL said:
The 20hz and below can’t be heard statement is a myth. It can be heard but the SPL must be increased as the frequency drops as our ears are less sensitive. The producer of the Rotary woofer that can effectively play to D.C said that we can hear 1hz if it’s loud enough.
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So all the scientific journals are talking nonsense then. And the rotary woofer producer is completely impartial. When playing VERY low bass if you are hearing anything it’s harmonics and distortion from the drivers. Very low bass pressurises the room and, to me, induces a “sick” feeling in the torso. My subs went down to about 15 hz, without distortion.
 
Colin L said:
So all the scientific journals are talking nonsense then. And the rotary woofer producer is completely impartial. When playing VERY low bass if you are hearing anything it’s harmonics and distortion from the drivers. Very low bass pressurises the room and, to me, induces a “sick” feeling in the torso. My subs went down to about 15 hz, without distortion.
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Maybe they came up with the 20hz figure because they couldn’t properly produce a frequency below that back then. I can hear 16hz easily, even at low spl’s. It takes a bit more volume to hear down to 10 and 12hz and more again to hear lower. At 5hz it’s probably the ear drums flapping with the pressure, so hard to say if it’s audible sound or the ear, but I can hear it. It’s not just distortion people hear below 20hz. I’ve two 18inch subs, so distortion is very low, even at those frequencies until the volume is turned up increasing excursion.
 
The moment you are dealing with "infrasound" then you are talking about 25% of the population exhibit psychological symptoms in response to them. A tigers roar has a fundamental frequency of 18 Hz, it's widely accepted that, as humans have evolved due to the inherent "danger" involved with infrasound , volcanoes, earthquakes, predators such as the tiger, then we have developed the flight or fight response where they are present.

The Yanks tried infrasound to scare the Vietnamese and all it did, was make them nervous and a shed load more trigger happy. I think it's 5 Hz that produces an oscillation in the eyeball that causes vision issues whereby, often people will think they are seeing sort of shadowy figure where there is none. It's almost certainly the science behind a good number of "hauntings", particularly those that involve tunnels such as the tube or buildings/areas that have water courses running underneath them.
 
Thetiminator said:
Just about sums it up....
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Just to add that over the years what I've noticed is that those who are using a sub/s change or add electronics, cables/accessories and speakers much less frequently then those not using a sub/s. Ime no matter how many changes are made upstream with electronics, cables/accessories and speakers the 'hole' in the sound will still be there. This 'hole' in the sound can be plugged with a subwoofer.

Btw, try to not waste the potential of a subwoofer by having the sub playing just below the mains or with a low crossover point. Be confident in unburdening the mains by using a high crossover point and pass this low frequency burden on the subs/s. Sub bass is best reproduced by a subwoofer.

A subwoofer is the most important main component.
 
Musicraft said:
Btw, try to not waste the potential of a subwoofer by having the sub playing just below the mains or with a low crossover point. Be confident in unburdening the mains by using a high crossover point and pass this low frequency burden on the subs/s. Sub bass is best reproduced by a subwoofer.

A subwoofer is the most important main component.
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Hi MC
I’ve played with the crossover point up and down along with the phase, volume and slope. I found (with my speakers) that there was a distinct point when the subs input detracted from the sound by thickening voices and bass detail. For me it is 43-44hz and volume at -15db. Even 1hz or dB either way made a noticeable (worse sounding) difference.

But when set at this point the sub makes a huge difference in the way you say. Surprisingly, the least effect is in the low bass. It’s the soundstaging, atmosphere and mids where you really hear the benefits...
 
Thetiminator said:
Hi MC
I’ve played with the crossover point up and down along with the phase, volume and slope. I found (with my speakers) that there was a distinct point when the subs input detracted from the sound by thickening voices and bass detail. For me it is 43-44hz and volume at -15db. Even 1hz or dB either way made a noticeable (worse sounding) difference.

But when set at this point the sub makes a huge difference in the way you say. Surprisingly, the least effect is in the low bass. It’s the soundstaging, atmosphere and mids where you really hear the benefits...
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You need to use an additional Crossover in order to reduce the amount of deep bass your speakers receive and then up the subwoofer crossover to suit.
Often though, once you go past a certain point, the subwoofer sound will become localised, so at this point you need to either position the sub directly between the speakers or get 2 subs and place them beside the speakers somewhere.
 
Thetiminator said:
Hi MC
I’ve played with the crossover point up and down along with the phase, volume and slope. I found (with my speakers) that there was a distinct point when the subs input detracted from the sound by thickening voices and bass detail. For me it is 43-44hz and volume at -15db. Even 1hz or dB either way made a noticeable (worse sounding) difference.

But when set at this point the sub makes a huge difference in the way you say. Surprisingly, the least effect is in the low bass. It’s the soundstaging, atmosphere and mids where you really hear the benefits...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how the reproduction of mids from your main speakers can benefit from the addition of subs if you are not unburdening your mains by high-passing them? i.e. your mains are still being asked to produce the same full range signal even when the subs are on.

EDIT - When I high-passed the mains in my multichannel system (gosh, must be almost 15 years ago!), the improvement in speed, clarity and air was nothing short of staggering. I was admittedly using relatively low-fi speakers at the time (Wharfedale Valdus 500, which were front- and rear-ported! :eek:), so probably benefited more from high-passing my mains than most.
 
ToTo Man said:
I'm not sure how the reproduction of mids from your main speakers can benefit from the addition of subs if you are not high-passing your mains? i.e. your mains are still being asked to produce the same full range signal even when the subs are on.
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It is an artefact of adding a sub, even without unburdening the mains. Rel were largely the pioneers of this.
 
MattSPL said:
It is an artefact of adding a sub, even without unburdening the mains. Rel were largely the pioneers of this.
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I can't say I've noticed any change in the timbre of the mids and highs of my main speakers when I switch my subs on or off. The effect I notice is more spatial (the soundstage increases in size, depth and solidity).
 
ToTo Man said:
I can't say I've noticed any change in the timbre of the mids and highs of my main speakers when I switch my subs on or off. The effect I notice is more spatial (the soundstage increases in size, depth and solidity).
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I find the same as yourself when adding a sub. I think though it’s possible the upper bass/lower mids are fattened up by some subs depending on the type of internal crossover the sub has.
I know when I had a Rel Q201e, even set at 26hz, if you played the sub without speakers, you could hear deep parts of vocals.
 
Thetiminator said:
Hi MC
I’ve played with the crossover point up and down along with the phase, volume and slope. I found (with my speakers) that there was a distinct point when the subs input detracted from the sound by thickening voices and bass detail. For me it is 43-44hz and volume at -15db. Even 1hz or dB either way made a noticeable (worse sounding) difference.

But when set at this point the sub makes a huge difference in the way you say. Surprisingly, the least effect is in the low bass. It’s the soundstaging, atmosphere and mids where you really hear the benefits...
Click to expand...

What components are you using please?
 
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