exactly, that's why it's worthwhile people replacing the fuses, mains leads, sockets etc because these are the things the manufacturers have saved money on.
RFI : how does it affect mains circuitry of hifi equipment?
- Thread starter Lee T
- Start date
exactly, that's why it's worthwhile people replacing the fuses, mains leads, sockets etc because these are the things the manufacturers have saved money on.
JohnW
pfm member
That's the root of the misconception, nowadays there is a significant amount of RF energy on the mains supply - SMPS, LED lighting and Network over the mains supply are the worst offenders - the Network over the Mains is partially troublesome in my lab it seeps into the PSUs on my lab equipment (which are better filtered then consumer devices) for any performance measurements I need to pull the local network adaptor.
I also had a brand of GU10 LED lamps whose internal SMPS was poorly filtered, again lights off for certain measurements its really not easy, as there would be times I forget and would have to repeat time consuming tests after all this time I should know better.
It will be interesting to see what effect isolated spurs in my new lab will have but they are all returned to the same external Meter box / master Fuse / switch etc.
I recently found out that my active speakers were affected by some interference probably caused by nearby base station which operates at 900-2600MHz (GSM, UMTS, LTE). The speakers generated a low but noticeble high frequency noise (mainly from the tweeter). Covering the amplifier cavety with foil tape thus protecting the circuitry of the amp tape removed the high frquency noise. Experimenting some further I also noticed that very long power cables (18 m extention
cord) picked up the interference so I now use shielded power cables just to be sure. See this thread if you are i terested in the process:
http://atcforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6678
cord) picked up the interference so I now use shielded power cables just to be sure. See this thread if you are i terested in the process:
http://atcforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6678
Arkless Electronics
Trade: Amp design and repairs.
+1 I have to switch off CFL bulbs on my test bench when doing sensitive noise and distortion measurements.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
What about when those mains leads cost only about £60 each depending on length?
Both my valve pre and power amps lose a certain "hardness" when these mains cables are used:
http://markgrantcables.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=69
Furthermore, the guy who designed and built my amps uses the same cables in his own system following my recommendation.
Steven Toy
Accuphase newbie
I use incandescent bulbs in my listening room.
Julf
Facts are our friends
whatsnext
Naimless
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
I repeat the ASA decision their ruling was entirely based upon if RA was misleading
and found he was not because his wording was he believed it would be effective in the domestic environment, he did not say it would.
I believe a number of things including Ragaman is misguidedly trying to use the ASA finding as a big stick to support his beliefs. It may not be a stick of course.
If anything should be discussed it is what are the labs findings and how much do they reflect what happens in a non lab environment i.e domestic. Frequencies of signals used and their amplitude.
Why was Russ so unwilling to say they do remove RFI instead of it is his belief? He knows his cables will not remove RFI.
If anyone wants to follow the teachings and beliefs of Russ A that is their right.
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
We investigated the ad under CAP Code (Edition 12) rules 3.1, 3.3 (Misleading advertising) and 3.7 (Substantiation) but did not find it in breach.
I repeat the ASA decision their ruling was entirely based upon if RA was misleading
and found he was not because his wording was he believed it would be effective in the domestic environment, he did not say it would.
I believe a number of things including Ragaman is misguidedly trying to use the ASA finding as a big stick to support his beliefs. It may not be a stick of course.
If anything should be discussed it is what are the labs findings and how much do they reflect what happens in a non lab environment i.e domestic. Frequencies of signals used and their amplitude.
Why was Russ so unwilling to say they do remove RFI instead of it is his belief? He knows his cables will not remove RFI.
If anyone wants to follow the teachings and beliefs of Russ A that is their right.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Is that as a precaution or have you actually heard a difference?
the power cables are acting as a capacitor and filtering out the noise ?
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
I can't say I see any evidence that manufacturers have saved money on these items. It is certainly possible to buy expensive fuses etc. but that doesn't mean manufacturers have skimped by not fitting them.
Does the kelvin of the light affect the perception of sound ?
Don't manufacturers just include kettle leads because they expect the customer to change them for something better. Wonder if Arkless could provide some examples of manufacturers saving money on their products.
Werner
pfm Member
Who wrote an article on his method and the correlation he found with sound quality, HFN July 1989.
Those who want a copy can drop me a PM.
Sadly he dropped his approach after a few years, and industry did not pick it up.
whatsnext
Naimless
http://www.russandrews.com/downloads/SKtest.pdf
This is the document Ragaman holds as his reason to believe in RFI
let those who have the technical knowledge perhaps advise us as to how relevant the test parameters are to domestica
I shall read it later when I have unwound from work in case my limited physics allows a view.
This is the document Ragaman holds as his reason to believe in RFI
let those who have the technical knowledge perhaps advise us as to how relevant the test parameters are to domestica
I shall read it later when I have unwound from work in case my limited physics allows a view.
Barrymagrec
pfm Member
The colour temperature and intensity can affect mood so probably yes.
Not the point of the question though.
Werner
pfm Member
Any power cable has some stray capacitance. No power cable has the sort of capacitance quantity so that it can reliably and consistency provide useful filtering action. For the latter you need a real filter (and even then!!!!), and once you add such a filter the cable is no longer a 'cable'.
Rhetorical question to all: what does the mains wiring in a typical home look like, when observing it from a single wall socket and from DC to light?
I like this explanation from candycable on whathifi
post 5
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/accessories/mains-cable-confusion
"Contrary to popular belief, the
main benefit of screened mains cables is the fact that it creates a high
capacitive link between the live, neutral and earth- i.e. a nice filter. This
filter effect way outweighs any airborne RF disturbance effects- in fact
airborne RF pales into insignificance unless you live under the transmitters
and crystal palace. However, steel braid mains cables do just as most filters
do, and dump the junk picked up straight back on the earth. Unless you have a
technical ground and a 'dirty' ground. In some situations we even have a safety
ground separated out to prevent chassis being charged with noise from the dirty
earth. My favourite is the Studio
Connections cable which is, like military cables, uses a conductive plastic
shield that has a resistance to it and a filtering effect. This means it work
as a filter, but the resistive properties dissipate the energy as heat. It
works. That's why we use it when design marine cables that have to be immune to
RADAR- the RADAR energy simply disappears leaving on trace.
If you listen on a good, wide band system - say a Moon/Focal, to decent
interconnect and speaker cables (from a physics point of view a rarity by the
way) and most hyped up cables, the difference really is staggering. If its not
then something ain't right, or its already at the top pf the game. Until you
have heard the difference, I would say, you have not heard a true system with
decent cable. When you think the performer is the room, that when you know you
are close to the music. Mains cable makes less difference, but once the components,
interconnect and speaker cables are well selected, then a good mains cable will
bring the image in a little more well grounded (excuse the pun) - why - because
another level of noise has been removed- the horizon is more stable.
People say listening is subjective, but our listening is intuitive and
evolved over millions of years to work to understand where noises in nature are
coming from- the ears listen to a few kilohertz, but the brain measures timing
differences of the sound hitting the ear drums to much smaller times- in the
realms of 250 KHz- (that explains how we sense Jitter that resides way out of
the traditional audio band). When everything has the right phase timing and
nothing is delayed by the cable (propagation delay is the technical way we
refer to 'cable speed' and is core to the performance of a system) - when
everything is right, it feels right and the body relaxes. Go outside, close you
eyes and listen to a bird call, you can point to the birds position to within a
few degrees. Everything is in place and that's a lot of timing info being
processed fot that to happen. If the components of the bird call are delayed
and messed around, you would not feel comfortable and could not position it so
well. Its our natural defence, fight or flight skills at work."
Think this is the cable he mentions http://www.studioconnections.co.uk/Power.htm
you can buy 100m of it if you want to kit out a house or studio.
occamsrazor
pfm Member
I've noticed that having a few beverages at night increases the audio SQ far more than anything else in my system. Best upgrade ever...