gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
We voted for the Labour Party and their policies, not the leader.
Question Time
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
We voted for the Labour Party and their policies, not the leader.
Rob998
Scimmia Nordoccidentale
Me too, I voted Labour despite Corbyn, not because of him. I’ll vot Labour again despite Starmer.
My view is similar to what has been stated long upthread, first get the Tories out and Labour in, then hope that they make a good fist of it. They’d be hard pressed to do a worse job than the current incumbents.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
You liked Corbyn’s policies?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Personally, yes, I certainly did like the manifesto.
I wonder why Corbyn didn’t implement any of the Labour manifesto while in opposition, as is expected by some of Starmer. Peculiar one, that.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
A pledge and a manifesto are different things. A pledge to stand shoulder to shoulder with trade unions for example, could and should be implemented while in opposition. Corbyn and McDonnell have managed it after all
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I disagree. A ‘pledge’ is an indicator of what the party will aim to do in govt.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Not convinced, unfortunately. The context behind Starmer’s pledges was ‘here’s who I am, and here’s what a party I lead will stand for’. You don’t have to be in power to abide by the principles you’ve set out for yourself.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
It was not being in opposition that has stopped Starmer keeping his pledge to stand shoulder to shoulder with the unions. Others managed it.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
In the context of when they were made the pledges were an indication of what the party would do if elected into govt with Starmer as the leader. E.g...elect us and this is what we will do.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
What others managed is irrelevant. Labour want to win the next GE and remove the tories. Others didn’t manage that.
Tony L
Administrator
Agreed. The pledges were merely marketing rhetoric created in order to become party leader. They have all been abandoned since despite for some reason remaining on his site (link). Most he now refuses to be drawn on at all, some he even actively bans Labour MPs from publicly supporting (e.g. trade unions). I’m amazed anyone views Starmer as being any less of a shape-shifter than Johnson, Farage or whoever. Just another of a long line of grasping opportunists that blight modern politics. An integrity free zone.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
If the last eight years have taught us anything, it’s that the Labour Party will never be allowed, or allow itself, to be reformed or transformed into anything approaching a radical body that would affect meaningful wealth redistribution, as Stafford Cripps in the 1930’s, Tony Benn in the 1980’s and Corbyn in the 2010’s all found out to their cost.
Yes, there is danger in a cynical “they’re just as bad as the Tories” argument- clearly they are not. However, five years of a right-wing Starmer administration, who has gone out of his way to make it clear to the bosses that he is no threat, that he will follow a right-wing economic, austerity policy and will be no friend to the trade unions, merely increases the probability of further ‘Red Wall’ type massacres, as swathes of disaffected traditional Labour voters see the party as no longer representing their interests.
I’ll be as cock-a-hoop as any of us to see this current gang of Tory crooks shown the door, but those of us who see the election of Starmer as the first stage in some sort of process on the road to a true socialist Labour Party are deluding themselves and have clearly not paid attention to the Corbyn years.
Yes, there is danger in a cynical “they’re just as bad as the Tories” argument- clearly they are not. However, five years of a right-wing Starmer administration, who has gone out of his way to make it clear to the bosses that he is no threat, that he will follow a right-wing economic, austerity policy and will be no friend to the trade unions, merely increases the probability of further ‘Red Wall’ type massacres, as swathes of disaffected traditional Labour voters see the party as no longer representing their interests.
I’ll be as cock-a-hoop as any of us to see this current gang of Tory crooks shown the door, but those of us who see the election of Starmer as the first stage in some sort of process on the road to a true socialist Labour Party are deluding themselves and have clearly not paid attention to the Corbyn years.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I realise that Starmer is trying to avoid giving any ammunition to the right wing press, but he doesn’t have to be in power to be able to say ‘these strikes are by and for people whose working conditions and pay have become intolerable. We stand with them in their right to strike’. He hasn’t even done that, and what’s worse, he’s prevented his MPs from doing it either.
What it’s doing is sending the right wing media a message that they are free to jerk Starmer’s chain whenever they like.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
My preference is for Labour to remove the tories from govt then make a judgement based on the facts of what the party actually does.
I think Starmer is doing a pretty good job, he has a strategy & is not afraid to make decisions. I probably won’t agree with all of what he does but anything is better than the current shower.
To a degree you have to appease the city & appeal to business, Truss found this out pretty quickly.
I don’t share the public good, private sector bad viewpoint of some on here but I’ve never voted Tory & never will.
To a degree you have to appease the city & appeal to business, Truss found this out pretty quickly.
I don’t share the public good, private sector bad viewpoint of some on here but I’ve never voted Tory & never will.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
It’s now looking impossible to get a fag paper between significant Labour and Tory areas of policy. Starmer says “no magic check book will be brought out” to pay public sector workers whose incomes have been hammered by the Tories, no renegotiation to undo the damage to the economy from hard Brexit. Blair and Brown went on a prawn cocktail offensive, what kind of offensive would you call this?
Then there’s the accident waiting to happen Labour shadow Health Secretary blaming NHS staff for the current disorder caused by chronic Tory underfunding and bodged market reforms.
Wes Streeting: “The NHS is often run in the interests of doctors rather than patients”…then the best bit: “Labour has accused the Government of underfunding the NHS and alienating the workforce”.Pot kettle.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-run-doctors-patients-decade-fix-wes-streeting-2083608
Then there’s the accident waiting to happen Labour shadow Health Secretary blaming NHS staff for the current disorder caused by chronic Tory underfunding and bodged market reforms.
Wes Streeting: “The NHS is often run in the interests of doctors rather than patients”…then the best bit: “Labour has accused the Government of underfunding the NHS and alienating the workforce”.Pot kettle.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-run-doctors-patients-decade-fix-wes-streeting-2083608
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Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
A "smoked salmon and scrambled eggs offensive"
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1526821826994774016?lang=en
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Or just ‘thoroughly offensive’?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Slagging Labour again. In the interests of balance it should be noted that being fully signed up to neoliberal economics, it’s impossible to get a fag paper between tory and SNP on the most significant area of policy.
Neoliberalism with a heart... ho ho ho!
SNP Economic Strategy:
Neo Liberalism with a Heart
Source : J and M Cutherbert
Talking about fag papers, not much between Sturgeon and Truss, they should be pals.
Source : Prof Ronald Macdonald