gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
indeed. actually we did enquire - we only use 0.5l per week, occasionally more, and the milk man said the order would be too small.
Professional Cooker Brand?
- Thread starter Vinny
- Start date
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Well this is a big discussion around market driven capitalism really and its been covered endlessly so we are probably wasting our time but market forces do drive the market. If you have a populace motivated by low prices and nice new shiny (and we do) then that is what we get. People don't get asked if they want monkey metal bearing holders but when they want a washing machine for £199 that's what they will get. If Hotpoint or whoever refuse to demean themselves and only build good quality machines then they cannot build and sell for £199 they will lose that market and need to find other buyers happy to pay £500 or whatever. Plenty of other companies will come in to fill the low end void. We do have the choice, buy cheap and replace regularly or buy quality once. I paid around £1000 for a washing machine that I expect to last 25 years plus which to me is better than buying a £199 machine every 5 years. The cost is similar and the cheap one might last longer but all that time I will have a better made, quieter and more efficient machine.
Re milk delivery, our milk service has glass bottles for £1.25 pt or plastic for £1.14 pt they also do cardboard cartons for £1.09, Choice, driven by demand. I believe glass bottle are actually worse for the environment than the plastic bottles as they only last on average 7 deliveries and the manufacturing cost is considerably higher. However people like the idea of them and remember their childhood!
There will be various versions of that online, but that does not sound familiar, or correct.
Glass is, however, excedingly easy to recycle, plastics are exceedingly difficult to recycle into something of even close to the original value.
Colour apart, glass used for retail is glass, is glass, cheap and chearful soda-lime.
Retail use plastics are commonly polystyrene, polyethylene, polypropylene and polyester, with a small admixture of countless others, such as ABS, nitro-cellulose (used in prinking inks in particular), various copolylers with propylene, PVC, various acrylics etc. etc. etc. And no, you absolutely cannot mix them for true recycling, not even close, mixtures are fit for down-cycling and nothing else.
It’s the ultimate logic, pointless looking for products that don’t exist. I’d generally pay more for something of quality but this does not seem to be the case with appliances.
All you can do is buy with the knowledge that it won’t last so why pay more?
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
It may be correct but it does not look right.
The calculations will include countless assumptions and approximations and will vary with things like fuel costs (I have no idea what glass funances are fuelled with these days - it always used to be gas, but I know an accountant who works for Ketton Cement and their calciners will burn just about anything, especially ground vehicle tyres, which are, or course in large part renewable - the rubber content - and have essentially no other destiny but landfill and playground and horse exercise area surfacing).
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
BTW, this is what a professional cooker looks like these days:
https://www.falconfoodservice.com/products/catalogue/range/g1006fx/overview - may require an upgrade of your gas supply.
Or if you prefer electric:
https://www.falconfoodservice.com/products/catalogue/induction/e3917i/overview - you'll need a 3-phase 400V 63A power supply for that puppy.
Other types available here, some smaller and some larger still: https://www.falconfoodservice.com/ I'm sure they're all built to last. Alternatively, Baron, Garland, Metos, Rosinox, Electrolux...
(I have no shares in the company or the group that owns most of these (Ali).)
https://www.falconfoodservice.com/products/catalogue/range/g1006fx/overview - may require an upgrade of your gas supply.
Or if you prefer electric:
https://www.falconfoodservice.com/products/catalogue/induction/e3917i/overview - you'll need a 3-phase 400V 63A power supply for that puppy.
Other types available here, some smaller and some larger still: https://www.falconfoodservice.com/ I'm sure they're all built to last. Alternatively, Baron, Garland, Metos, Rosinox, Electrolux...
(I have no shares in the company or the group that owns most of these (Ali).)
GF670
pfm Member
Slightly different, but we bought an Everhot 120i a couple of years ago. Best purchase I've ever made, and I would never go back to Rangemaster/Britannia etc. See: https://everhot.co.uk Having solar panels definitely helps though!
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Of course, here's a 60 x 60 cm package:
https://www.falconfoodservice.com/p..._pages/dashboard/images/G3161D-Spec-Sheet.pdf
it's still 26 kW nett, 2.7 m3/h gas flow.
gez
pfm Member
Part of the problem is that most of the major names in Cookers (and white goods in general) that used to be independent houseold names 30-40 years ago are nothing more than brand names for a handful of companies, such as Electrolux or Whirlpool, who seem to own a lot of them now. Bosch is one of the few "German" brands for example that are still actually independent and German owned. (AEG are Electrolux for example). Neff and Siemens (which were once independent) are now Bosch owned, so at least they're still German (if that matters to anyone).
Fairly typically when a company has become just another brand name of a larger global corp, the quality of their products usually drops notably.
Fairly typically when a company has become just another brand name of a larger global corp, the quality of their products usually drops notably.
gez
pfm Member
According to wiki, (which is usually pretty accurate for this kind of thing), Miele are still an independent family owned business.
Miele - Wikipedia
gez
pfm Member
I'm going to hazard a guess (on the assumption both are 100% recyclable) that glass bottles would also be significantly more energy use heavy to recycle than plastic, given it's significantly higher melting temperature. That said, glass will only actually need to be melted down for reproduction once they become damaged, otherwise it's a quick wash and back out again. Whereas I would assume plastic containers would always be required to be melted down and reproduced from scratch each time.
It would be interesting to see actual figures as a comparison because a lot of people do claim that glass reuse is better environmentally than any form of plastic use.
Being totally serious - almost impossible.
To recycle a plastic to original use, which can't be done for many cycles as at the simplest level, molecular weight drops with each circuit round the loop, that plastic has to be pure to within something like 0.1% (I worked in R&D in the plastics industry and anything new had be be recyclable at that level simply to be able to recycle the scrap that was generated as routine, and many options were not), and also dry and clean. Some contaminant polymers are also 100% completely incompatible anyway.
Again a "simple" problem - how the hell do they get rid of paper labels, and the glue on them, from so many thin and lightweight retail enclosures? In theory they could be filtered out of the melt, but in the real world - FORGET it as totally uneconomic.
I would love to see an independent analysis of the thin plastics that all the supermarkets now take for recycling....................... I just cannot see it being genuine. But I do my bit and anything suitable does go back.
That will be with everything running full tilt, which essentially never happens domestically, even if it does in a commercial kitchen. I have looked at standard domestic cookers and the same applies - in power distribution there is a term for it, which I long ago forgot.
To keep a pan boiling on a cooker ring takes X kW, or so many kWhr to bring to the boil, no matter who made the cooker.
With everything running full tilt on a standard all-electric 4 ring domestic cooker would be 12-15 (more?) kW - that's a lot of amps.
This has deviated somewhat into a recycling/waste reduction thread.................
Did anyone pick up the news about Tesco avocados? They are experimenting with laser labelling them - if it works, it will save a mind-numbing number of (small) plastic labels. It will be one hell of an achievment in software as much as anything as the laser-written information will distort as the fruit ages.
I hope it works!!!!! One small step etc..............
Did anyone pick up the news about Tesco avocados? They are experimenting with laser labelling them - if it works, it will save a mind-numbing number of (small) plastic labels. It will be one hell of an achievment in software as much as anything as the laser-written information will distort as the fruit ages.
I hope it works!!!!! One small step etc..............
misterdog
Not the canine kind
Oh no it isn't.
Miele & Cie. KG is jointly managed by six directors: Dr Markus Miele (Executive Director and Co-Proprietor), Dr Stefan Breit (Technology), Dr Axel Kniehl (Marketing & Sales), Rebecca Steinhage (Human Resources & Corporate Affairs), Dr Reinhard Zinkann (Executive Director and Co-Proprietor) and Olaf Bartsch (Finance & Administration).
Bosch, Neff and Siemens are all the same stablemates but not Miele.
If you want industrial quality in a domestic setting Falcon is the brand, part of the Aga/Rayburn group.
misterdog
Not the canine kind
Falcon (part of the Aga group) make domestic cookers built like tanks, they also manufacture commercial cooking appliances.
Laconche are the French equivalent, though I have no personal experience of this brand.
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
Falcon is part of AFE which belongs to the Ali Group (the huge Italian group that gobbled up Welbilt a few years ago). Nothing much to do with Aga, which together with Rangemaster is owned by the Middleby group (USA).
EDIT: to confuse the issue, there are some consumer products branded Falcon within the vast Middleby portfolio.
gez
pfm Member
Surely edible labels are the way forward. I recall seeing a program a few years ago now where someone had developed an edible wrapper for burgers, made from seaweed/kelp (obviously derived from the plant, not just the leaves themselves wrapped around a burger!)
anyway... that's enough off topic, sorry....
