Previously happy LP12 owners who moved on.....
- Thread starter ex brickie
- Start date
It'll fit the Cirkus sub-chassis, which is the same as the last pre-Cirkus except for the double thickness at the bearing mounting.A great pity the KAROUSEL bearing doesn’t fit the original sub-chassis, otherwise I might be still using it!
A prolonged read. I'm remortgaging my House to buy a slightly serious turntable. Thought 250K would do it but that seems on the cheap side these days. Fools and their money, say no more. Thankfully my hard earned will be going on a Porsche or an Aston and I'll live Happily with my crappy Old Oracle. This whole Hobby would have Aliens in stitches . Try selling 10K worth of vinyl and see what you get offered? "We'd be selling them at 3 for a tenner at record Fairs". Must be different Fairs than I've been at and no wonder they are dead.
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Whilst I cannot offer any insight around the quality and types of metals involved, from my close observation, I would say this is absolutely correct. The more secure bearing fixing is all of it.
It is an interesting point isn’t it?
If making a better job of fixing the bearing to the sub-chassis (KAROUSEL) makes so much positive impact on the sound, imagine the gains from eliminating the micro-movement between sub-chassis and arm-board?
Go a step further and imagine the gains possible by eliminating (much of) the sub-chassis twist (and wobble), in relation to the top-plate - remembering that these movements are many times larger than the micro-movements around the bearing fixings or between sub-chassis and arm-board.
… and once again, we are full circle, back to the mushrooms!
per-Sony-fied
Me in another jacket
Karousel - LinnDocs
docs.linn.co.uk
This all sounds like a very good argument for a totally solid turntable to me.Whilst I cannot offer any insight around the quality and types of metals involved, from my close observation, I would say this is absolutely correct. The more secure bearing fixing is all of it.
It is an interesting point isn’t it?
If making a better job of fixing the bearing to the sub-chassis (KAROUSEL) makes so much positive impact on the sound, imagine the gains from eliminating the micro-movement between sub-chassis and arm-board?
Go a step further and imagine the gains possible by eliminating (much of) the sub-chassis twist (and wobble), in relation to the top-plate - remembering that these movements are many times larger than the micro-movements around the bearing fixings or between sub-chassis and arm-board.
… and once again, we are full circle, back to the mushrooms!
Nevertheless, I have my RS mushrooms and will fit them soon.
They are very nicely made.
Or the fact that you're making a turntable that is not an LP12?and once again, we are full circle, back to the mushrooms!
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
I prefer to call it an LP12 without the speed flutter… so in that specific way, YES, It is a totally different beast from the original and current LINN designs.
But how do you define "an LP12", Mr P???
Given - over its lifetime - Linn has changed:
* the subchassis
* the bearing
* the springs
* the motor/motor controller
- first, from the original, primitive res/cap PS through to the Valhalla ... then Lingos 1- 4
- and second, the introduction of a DC motor (previously regarded as sacrelige by Linn!) and the Radikal controller
* the plinth
* the armboard
* and, I think ... even the top-plate.
As is my 2-motor 'SkeletaLinn' ... but it still sounds more like a high-spec LP12 than say, a Brinkman.
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John
Rack’em Up!
Interesting, do you have a photo to share? I’m curious that I might have enough bits to put one together.But how do you define "an LP12", Mr P???
Given - over its lifetime - Linn has changed:
* the subchassis
* the bearing
* the springs
* the motor/motor controller
- first, from the original, primitive res/cap PS through to the Valhalla ... then Lingos 1- 4
- and second, the introduction of a DC motor (previously regarded as sacrelige by Linn!) and the Radikal controller
* the plinth
* the armboard
* and, I think ... even the top-plate.
As is my 2-motor 'SkeletaLinn' ... but it still sounds more like a high-spec LP12 than say, a Brinkman.
Well, I fitted mushrooms this morning and have put up a lengthy post in the DIY section.Whilst I cannot offer any insight around the quality and types of metals involved, from my close observation, I would say this is absolutely correct. The more secure bearing fixing is all of it.
It is an interesting point isn’t it?
If making a better job of fixing the bearing to the sub-chassis (KAROUSEL) makes so much positive impact on the sound, imagine the gains from eliminating the micro-movement between sub-chassis and arm-board?
Go a step further and imagine the gains possible by eliminating (much of) the sub-chassis twist (and wobble), in relation to the top-plate - remembering that these movements are many times larger than the micro-movements around the bearing fixings or between sub-chassis and arm-board.
… and once again, we are full circle, back to the mushrooms!
John
Rack’em Up!
You might want to post your review on this thread here:Well, I fitted mushrooms this morning and have put up a lengthy post in the DIY section.
When is a spring not a spring ? When it’s a polymer Insole
Well, I have finally fitted John R’s thingies after buying them last May and their subsequent adventures in the post to Spain and back and then a voyage here on a Christmas cruise (cheers bro ) and my 3 Linn grommets, their springs and nyloc nuts are in a plastic bag. Bill Evans Trio is playing...
pinkfishmedia.net
I know I never look at the DIY room.
But it's not a polymer Insole.You might want to post your review on this thread here:
When is a spring not a spring ? When it’s a polymer Insole
Well, I have finally fitted John R’s thingies after buying them last May and their subsequent adventures in the post to Spain and back and then a voyage here on a Christmas cruise (cheers bro ) and my 3 Linn grommets, their springs and nyloc nuts are in a plastic bag. Bill Evans Trio is playing...
I know I never look at the DIY room.
I dont know how to move a posting, tbh.You might want to post your review on this thread here:
When is a spring not a spring ? When it’s a polymer Insole
Well, I have finally fitted John R’s thingies after buying them last May and their subsequent adventures in the post to Spain and back and then a voyage here on a Christmas cruise (cheers bro ) and my 3 Linn grommets, their springs and nyloc nuts are in a plastic bag. Bill Evans Trio is playing...
I know I never look at the DIY room.
John
Rack’em Up!
You can cut and pasteI dont know how to move a posting, tbh.
John
Rack’em Up!
In-sole is no more with the passing of John R. It is claimed that the mushrooms achieve a similar benefit and the thread contains some great information on both.
I have read the entire thread.
Replacing the springs with the RS supplied mushrooms wasnt a sonic game changer for me, but do seem to offer greater clarity with vocals etc.
I love how they make the deck feel to operate though and they certainly don’t make it sound worse, so will stay for now and maybe forever.
John
Rack’em Up!
I love the feel of my LP12 after adding In-soles as well. Records tight to the spindle go on and come off easier without setting the suspension in motion potentially damaging the stylus or whatever. Bumping into my swaying stack of Mana supporting the turntable accidentally or altering my source selector knob on the preamp no longer cause the record to skip as well.
Also the use of the In-Soles with the spacers supplied by LinnArts in conjunction with my Greenstreet Keel Klone gets the subchassis perfectly centered in position with the exact motor to spindle distance. Something that is likely out of whack on the great majority of LP12’s. This alone is likely a cause of lateral movement that leads to speed stability issues with the turntable.
I posted this today on the DIY thread but was suggested to post it here too.
[/HEADING][/HEADING]
For some time now, I have been following the various threads reporting the effects of removing the springs and fitting silicone mushrooms, at least partly because I am clumsy and find the suspension annoying to say the least.
I almost bought some last year but I heard that the original ones from John R were no longer available, so i parked the idea.
I should also mention that my ‘bounce’ has never been great.
It is fairly pistonic but dies out rapidly and seems over damped for some reason.
Despite that, the deck sounds great, to me and to others that have heard it.
We moved house in January and it took a while but I got my LP12 set up on a light table in the lounge instead of the HifI rack that it used eto be on.
It sounded just fine.
The new place has a huge and insulated garage so I set up my old Axis out there with a Denon amp that I bought off eBay and my old Epos ES11s.
When I unboxed the axis, I realised that the suspension had broken and as no parts are available, I decided to try it without any rather than breaking it for parts.
The top plate now rests on 6 tiny rubber stick on feet and the base on four slightly larger ones.
The weight of the plate and Akito arm is all that holds it down but feels good and solid to use.
It also sounds great…..
I have had it since new in 1990 and I don’t remember it ever sounding as good as it does now.
This inspired me again to try the mushrooms again so I bought the Taico ones from R/S after reading a promising review from another PF member, Seyles.
They look like they were made for the job and are very easy to fit, it was incredibly easy to level the arm board etc .
So, I had the player set up in the garage with the same ancillaries pretty much that I used to have at my old home.
The ES11s mentioned above and my nice old Denon PMA 355UK But using my home made phono stage as I always do.
I played 6 of my favourite tracks and was happy that I hadn’t done any harm to the sound.
I thought it might have a tad more clarity in the mid range but it wasn’t a massive change to my ears.
I then compared two of the tracks to a CD that I had recorded just before moving house on my pioneer CD recorder, which always makes copies that are indistinguishable to the originals, to me.
I have made countless vinyl rips and I know that the CD is as near to the original recording as I can determine.
This confirmed the very slight increase in clarity in the middle but i could discern no other differences.
This doesn’t mean there weren’t any, it just means that I couldn’t hear them and I am happy to stick with the silicone mushrooms unless I feel dissatisfied in the long term.
I do love how the deck feels now though.
So much better for my clumsy old hands….lol
So if you are thinking about giving it a go, it’s easy and it cost me around 40 pounds inc postage, for some very nicely made inserts, plus I used thumbscrews, as did Seyles, to make it easier to adjust.
It is easily reversible too.
I have pics but never have managed to show any on here.
[/HEADING][/HEADING]
[HEADING=3][HEADING=3]Jazzer
pfm Member
I have a 1988 pre cirkus LP12 with an Ittok LV11/AT540 and a modified Hercules PSU.For some time now, I have been following the various threads reporting the effects of removing the springs and fitting silicone mushrooms, at least partly because I am clumsy and find the suspension annoying to say the least.
I almost bought some last year but I heard that the original ones from John R were no longer available, so i parked the idea.
I should also mention that my ‘bounce’ has never been great.
It is fairly pistonic but dies out rapidly and seems over damped for some reason.
Despite that, the deck sounds great, to me and to others that have heard it.
We moved house in January and it took a while but I got my LP12 set up on a light table in the lounge instead of the HifI rack that it used eto be on.
It sounded just fine.
The new place has a huge and insulated garage so I set up my old Axis out there with a Denon amp that I bought off eBay and my old Epos ES11s.
When I unboxed the axis, I realised that the suspension had broken and as no parts are available, I decided to try it without any rather than breaking it for parts.
The top plate now rests on 6 tiny rubber stick on feet and the base on four slightly larger ones.
The weight of the plate and Akito arm is all that holds it down but feels good and solid to use.
It also sounds great…..
I have had it since new in 1990 and I don’t remember it ever sounding as good as it does now.
This inspired me again to try the mushrooms again so I bought the Taico ones from R/S after reading a promising review from another PF member, Seyles.
They look like they were made for the job and are very easy to fit, it was incredibly easy to level the arm board etc .
So, I had the player set up in the garage with the same ancillaries pretty much that I used to have at my old home.
The ES11s mentioned above and my nice old Denon PMA 355UK But using my home made phono stage as I always do.
I played 6 of my favourite tracks and was happy that I hadn’t done any harm to the sound.
I thought it might have a tad more clarity in the mid range but it wasn’t a massive change to my ears.
I then compared two of the tracks to a CD that I had recorded just before moving house on my pioneer CD recorder, which always makes copies that are indistinguishable to the originals, to me.
I have made countless vinyl rips and I know that the CD is as near to the original recording as I can determine.
This confirmed the very slight increase in clarity in the middle but i could discern no other differences.
This doesn’t mean there weren’t any, it just means that I couldn’t hear them and I am happy to stick with the silicone mushrooms unless I feel dissatisfied in the long term.
I do love how the deck feels now though.
So much better for my clumsy old hands….lol
So if you are thinking about giving it a go, it’s easy and it cost me around 40 pounds inc postage, for some very nicely made inserts, plus I used thumbscrews, as did Seyles, to make it easier to adjust.
It is easily reversible too.
I have pics but never have managed to show any on here.
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
Talking about spare parts laying around I always wanted to build one of these John, this -Teddy Pardo- build is all kinda obvious except for how the motor is mounted, motor mounting will require some creative thinking, trial & error and precise measurements, thought one could cut out the motor mount section of a factory top plate to maintain proper motor mounting/tilt adjust but that's the easy part, now how to mount and isolate that section of top plate to/near the kyte? ...I even sent him -Pardo- an email once -went unanswered- asking for some images of the underside to see how he placed the motor. Can't make out any details in the glass reflection either in case you were wondering, Lol. /// Oh, and look, it still says it's an LP12 on the armboard!
