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President Trump

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No the danger is not so much his legislative program but his mouth.
The xenophobic rhetoric is highly dangerous because at this very moment, far right organisations around the globe are cheering, emboldened by this victory.
This is particularly dangerous in Europe at the moment where far right groups no longer sit in the shadows.

Yes the far right are sadly prominent in Europe Rob, but why?

I suggest that the reasons were made in the USA by Clinton's donors and those she represented: Wall St banks and the Military Industrial Complex.

A massive influx of refugees fleeing the US regime change wars pushed by the people that have hijacked the foreign policy of the US. People that fully supported Hillary.

A bleak economic situation caused by the banks like Goldman Sachs who nearly destroyed the global economy. Of course they're even bigger supporters of Hillary.

Globalism, which drives down wages, exacerbating the problems people face because of this weak global economy caused by Hillary's backers, which nobody pushes harder than George Soros, Hillary's biggest backer.

All foisted upon Europe with the full support of Europe's so-called 'leaders'.

Trump may be many things but at least he opposes these wars that have caused so much mayhem, wars that his opponent loves!

He seems to be aware of the problems that globalism is causing too, whereas his opponent can't get enough of it.

His ugly way of highlighting these problems being a major worry.

Of course, Hillary's husband set the stage for the 2008 financial crash which many blame on the dummy: Bush, when he repealed glass-Steagall, thus allowing the banks that paid him and his wife tens of millions of Dollars for 'speaking' to almost destroy the world economy. The same banks that supported her, who she represented and who 'chose' Obama's cabinet.

So we see the ugly far right gain in popularity all over Europe. Marine Le Pen set as she is to become the leader of France, a country hit harder than anyone by terrorist attacks carried out by a group - supported by the same Saudi and Qatari governments that also gave dozens of millions of Dollars to the Clinton Foundation: ISIS - that rose from the ashes of the aforementioned wars that Hillary's biggest fans, the Neocons, brought about.

She even knew these governments were supporting ISIS yet she still took their money!

Hillary, the supposed champion of liberal values who's nothing more than a morally defunct financial prostitute who fully supported all of the acts that set the stage for the rise of the far right, and the wars with all their inherent death and destruction, and misery.

Trump is most certainly not the answer, but the ugliness that he displays openly is less damaging IMO than the ugliness that Hillary hid behind a veneer of so-called 'liberal values'.

I hope the far right aren't emboldened by his win. I also hope those on the left and in the centre realise why Trump gained power, and why a Le Pen might, and that we must do something about the problems driving people into their arms, rather than just condemn them.
 
Max is the same sort of bullshit spouting attention seeker that Trump is. A "shock jock" who delights in the negative attention. Suggest we all put him on ignore.

Ah, but he represents the many millions who have been seduced by the idea of the evils of globalism. And this movement, as someone memorably wrote yesterday (I forget in which publication), has now upended the two most stable democracies on the planet.

You can't ignore it.
 
I said maybe he actually wants to do his best for his country, you know, to help..

Max I'm just going to ask this one question as these "debates" go on and on ad infinitum.

He's no spring chicken.

What shred of evidence to you have for him being the sort of person who wants to help others?

Anything. Over more than half a century of being a member of the financial elite.Anything?
 
A counter point to Max's blind optimism

So this is the country that Trump – unshackled and unbound – can forge, starting three months from now. Oblivious to the environment, hostile to migrants, snarling towards Muslims and seeking to roll back rights that took decades to secure. It would be a country that saw the constitution not as its greatest gift, but as an obstacle to overcome. It would see diversity not as a strength, but as a fact to be tolerated, at best. And anyone objecting to any of this would find the big institutions, all three branches of government, arrayed against them. RIP America? It certainly might feel that way

For what we saw in the astonishingly ugly campaign fought by Donald Trump would be only an inkling of what is to follow. Or, as one senior Democrat put it to me: “The horror show has not even started. This is just the overture.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/10/will-trump-destroy-america
 
Yes the far right are sadly prominent in Europe Rob, but why?

I suggest that the reasons were made in the USA by Clinton's donors and those she represented: Wall St banks and the Military Industrial Complex.

A massive influx of refugees fleeing the US regime change wars pushed by the people that have hijacked the foreign policy of the US. People that fully supported Hillary.

A bleak economic situation caused by the banks like Goldman Sachs who nearly destroyed the global economy. Of course they're even bigger supporters of Hillary.

Globalism, which drives down wages, exacerbating the problems people face because of this weak global economy caused by Hillary's backers, which nobody pushes harder than George Soros, Hillary's biggest backer.

All foisted upon Europe with the full support of Europe's so-called 'leaders'.

Trump may be many things but at least he opposes these wars that have caused so much mayhem, wars that his opponent loves!

He seems to be aware of the problems that globalism is causing too, whereas his opponent can't get enough of it.

His ugly way of highlighting these problems being a major worry.

Of course, Hillary's husband set the stage for the 2008 financial crash which many blame on the dummy: Bush, when he repealed glass-Steagall, thus allowing the banks that paid him and his wife tens of millions of Dollars for 'speaking' to almost destroy the world economy. The same banks that supported her, who she represented and who 'chose' Obama's cabinet.

So we see the ugly far right gain in popularity all over Europe. Marine Le Pen set as she is to become the leader of France, a country hit harder than anyone by terrorist attacks carried out by a group - supported by the same Saudi and Qatari governments that also gave dozens of millions of Dollars to the Clinton Foundation: ISIS - that rose from the ashes of the aforementioned wars that Hillary's biggest fans, the Neocons, brought about.

She even knew these governments were supporting ISIS yet she still took their money!

Hillary, the supposed champion of liberal values who's nothing more than a morally defunct financial prostitute who fully supported all of the acts that set the stage for the rise of the far right, and the wars with all their inherent death and destruction, and misery.

Trump is most certainly not the answer, but the ugliness that he displays openly is less damaging IMO than the ugliness that Hillary hid behind a veneer of so-called 'liberal values'.

I hope the far right aren't emboldened by his win. I also hope those on the left and in the centre realise why Trump gained power, and why a Le Pen might, and that we must do something about the problems driving people into their arms, rather than just condemn them.

Wait... so the far right in Europe is Clinton's fault so we should fix this by actually electing a far right president with close ties to the extreme right (Brietbart ran his campaign, he is endorsed by the KKK and all sorts of alt-right/far right movements). You couldn't, as they say, make it up.

which nobody pushes harder than George Soros, Hillary's biggest backer.

Soros is one of many backers of Clinton. His high profile in this context is mostly because he is Jewish and the far right like to run him out as a sort of Shylock style bogeyman. E.g. He featured in Trumps final campaign video which was basically one long anti-semitic 'New World Order' dog whistle.

Meanwhile, Trump's campaign is *mostly* backed by hedge fund gazillionaire Robert Mercer who is like Soros only significantly wealthier, more influential and has a long history of supporting the extreme conservative wing of US politics; the very people you purport to be against.

Anyone objecting to Soros's influence on Clinton (and it's not an unreasonable view) must be orders of magnitude more concerned about Mercer's influence on Trump.

the Clinton Foundation

The case against the Clinton Foundation is mostly from a very shoddy book written and paid for by... brietbart.com The FBI investigation into the Clinton Foundation is basically some agents in the New York field office (friends of Rudi Guiliani in fact) who read this book and took that "evidence" to the Justice Department where they were promplty laughed at.

Which is not to say there are not some problems and conflicts of interest, but generally the Clinton Foundation is a good thing and there is scant evidence of any crime or wrongdoing.

and who 'chose' Obama's cabinet.

Putting things you know to be false in scare quotes so you can still say them is of course a favourite tactic of the far right and left and the most deeply unpleasant parts of our society.

Overall Maxx I find your arguments to be ill-informed, simplistic and often bordering on deluded. And while you are not literally to blame, all the shitty things Donald Trump will do over the coming years will be largely as a result of people thinking in much this way.
 
Hadley Freeman on how "Misogyny won the US election – let’s stop indulging angry white men":

‘Grab ’em by the pussy” was the line that was supposed to have ended Donald Trump’s campaign for presidency. Instead it turned out to be one of the most astonishing and successful strategies for the highest office. In a campaign based on racism, misogyny and bullying, Trump proved that boasting about sexually assaulting women, far from ruining a man’s career, can boost it; and white women voted for him in droves. Grab ’em by the pussy, indeed. The first black American president will now be succeeded by a man endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan. This, according to Trump and his supporters, male and female, is what the American dream actually looks like.

A lot will be written about how Trump’s victory represents a backlash of rage from the white working classes. The election of Trump, this narrative goes, proves how these people feel ignored by the elite politicians and metropolitan media. We need to hear more from these people

Far from ignoring the white working class during this election, they were written about so extensively by nervously placatory liberal journalists that these articles became a genre unto themselves, satirised perfectly by Benjamin Hart last week (“I couldn’t help but notice that people in Bleaksville are angry … I wanted to hear more but Ed explained that David Brooks had scheduled an interview with him to discuss whether he ate dinner with his family every night, and what it means for America.”)

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/10/misogyny-us-election-voters
 
Your logic, your facts and your reason don't work with people like max.

His ones are better. Much better.

And his ones are all over the Internet, shared and believed by millions. Millions.
 
Overall Maxx I find your arguments to be ill-informed, simplistic and often bordering on deluded. And while you are not literally to blame, all the shitty things Donald Trump will do over the coming years will be largely as a result of people thinking in much this way.

Maxflynn may not be to blame, but he is a remarkably good example of just how easily people can be misled and radicalised by propaganda like Breitbart, Trump's campaign etc. If anyone had told me a year or two ago he'd be arguing for a hard-right KKK-endorsed racist with very obvious fascist tendencies I'd have thought them utterly nuts.

The whole thing has been an eye-opener for me, I thought running a site targeted at comparatively well to do audiophile types I'd never see any popularist hard-right rhetoric here as folk would just recognise it as what it was. Sadly I was wrong. Whilst we unquestionably side overwhelmingly with sanity as a collective it is clear some have bought into the Trump/Farage etc new-right/new-fascism thing. We live in very dangerous times...

PS I'm going to link to this article again as folk really should read it. All the clues are to be found in history, people just need to learn to recognise them.
 
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SHOCK AND UNEASE AS TRUMP RISES TO POWER is the headline on the New York Times today.

Reads like a headline from history.
 
SHOCK AND UNEASE AS TRUMP RISES TO POWER

Is this the GOP using shock and aagghh tactics?

I have to say, I am surprised no one has suggested that the Russians might have hacked into the systems.
 
It is not too difficult to see similarities between 1930s Germany and present day. They had austerity, money sucked out in reparation, loans from the US which needed to be repaid after the wall street crash and a government who did not address the problems.
In a documentary a while ago a German woman was asked "how did Hitler rise to power", the answer "with the state of the country we would have followed anyone offering a solution".
 
PS I'm going to link to this article again as folk really should read it. All the clues are to be found in history, people just need to learn to recognise them.

It's a very relevant link, Tony, & a warning to us all, but I feel it's important to realise that none of us know for sure that Trump will be worse than another Clinton presidency.

Neither presidential candidate was desirable, but the previously unimaginable outcome is the product of decades of political mismanagement & corruption throughout the Western world (outside of which it's even worse...).
 
Max is the same sort of bullshit spouting attention seeker that Trump is. A "shock jock" who delights in the negative attention. Suggest we all put him on ignore.
Already done it. Regardless of his political judgement (which I believe is catastrophically misguided when it comes to Trump) some of his more gloating posts yesterday showed him up to be a shitty human being.
 
From a friend of mine:

And don’t even get me started on those Greens. They were so unable to hold their noses and vote for Clinton that they end up with the ONLY world leader who thinks climate change is a myth created by the Chinese and who wants to start burning coal to make America energy independent. At least the socialists in France voted for Chirac to keep Le Pen out. There slogan was ‘vote for the crook not the Nazi’
He makes a good point.
 
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