Barrymagrec
pfm Member
Any delay or dispute about who should take over plays straight into Trump`s hands.
Post-Trump: III (decline, further tantrums, legal proceedings, book deals etc)
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The Captain
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The thing is, it's not his age that's the problem- it's his stutter condition making it seem like dementia has started when it simply hasn't. Likely gets worse if he's slightly nervous, & when he's not (State of Union address, D-Day speech) he's on point/ normal. But how to convince the public of this, with such a manipulative bully as Trump deliberately using it (lying again) is impossible.
So I don't think he'll step down, if he knows he just needs to manage his impediment somehow, to stand up to trump in these debates. Maybe meds? maybe he even took a calmer which backfired. The golf swing remark, that was pure nerves.
Capt
So I don't think he'll step down, if he knows he just needs to manage his impediment somehow, to stand up to trump in these debates. Maybe meds? maybe he even took a calmer which backfired. The golf swing remark, that was pure nerves.
Capt
matthewr
spɹɐʍʞɔɐq spɹoɔǝɹ ɹnoʎ sʎɐld
I don't think they will stand him down at this point unless he decides he has too. Suspect they will put it all in on the second debate, although the timing of that makes it an absurdly long shot as they might be lost before it even happens.
Kamala also presents a problem. If the DNC just push her to one side then her being a black, woman will likely cause a problem with the very coalition that helped Biden win in 2020. If she just replaces Biden then the fact that for all her admirable qualities she is a terrible candidate will cause them more problems.
Replacements would, I guess be, Whitmer or Newsome. Although both would be a long shot and require them to give up what they see as their big chance in 2028. Assuming, of course, there is an election in 2028.
Anyway, let's hope this is the darkest hour and some kind of miracle happens.
PS If worst comes to the worst, I shall take one for the team and take him out. Pretty sure I an get a good whack in with my stick before the hail of secret service bullets take me out.
Kamala also presents a problem. If the DNC just push her to one side then her being a black, woman will likely cause a problem with the very coalition that helped Biden win in 2020. If she just replaces Biden then the fact that for all her admirable qualities she is a terrible candidate will cause them more problems.
Replacements would, I guess be, Whitmer or Newsome. Although both would be a long shot and require them to give up what they see as their big chance in 2028. Assuming, of course, there is an election in 2028.
Anyway, let's hope this is the darkest hour and some kind of miracle happens.
PS If worst comes to the worst, I shall take one for the team and take him out. Pretty sure I an get a good whack in with my stick before the hail of secret service bullets take me out.
Tony L
Administrator
Post-debate analysis/blind panic from MSNBC.
PS The thing that amazes me is how coherent Trump appeared. Sure, he lied on everything, but that’s what he does. It is what his base expect. He didn’t descend into the disconnected random Dada word-salad he does at every rally these days.
NeilR
pfm Member
Biden or Trump?
Nick_G
pfm Member
I get the impression that if I want to sleep at night, then don't watch that debate. SteveS1 is trying to be optimistic, but he seems to be using logic and reason to reach his conclusions. Nope. They no longer apply. America is losing it's mind, and this debate may prove to be the event horizon of the black hole which I call the CHAOS.
Have CNN now unwittingly signed the USA's death warrant?
Have CNN now unwittingly signed the USA's death warrant?
tones
Tones deaf
This is the take of Heather Cox Richardson:
heathercoxrichardson.substack.com
Given that she is very pro-Biden for all the good, sensible reasons, I wondered what she was going to say. Trump apparently put the Gish Gallop technique to good use.
The whole problem is that, in politics in general ands not just in the USA, performance art beats good sense, or, as they say Downunder, bulls**t baffles brains. As @Nick_G said above, America, or at least a substantial proportion thereof, has lost its mind, and actually wants a dictator, without knowing what that implies or entails. And, by the time they wake up, it'll be too late.
June 27, 2024
Tonight was the first debate between President Joe Biden and presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, and by far the most striking thing about the debate was the overwhelming focus among pundits immediately afterward about Biden’s appearance and soft, hoarse voice as he rattled...
heathercoxrichardson.substack.com
Given that she is very pro-Biden for all the good, sensible reasons, I wondered what she was going to say. Trump apparently put the Gish Gallop technique to good use.
The whole problem is that, in politics in general ands not just in the USA, performance art beats good sense, or, as they say Downunder, bulls**t baffles brains. As @Nick_G said above, America, or at least a substantial proportion thereof, has lost its mind, and actually wants a dictator, without knowing what that implies or entails. And, by the time they wake up, it'll be too late.
MVV
pfm Member
Very good, thanks.
Darmok
pfm Member
Thanks TL but no thanks...
Houston, we have a problem.
Obama needs to have a word in Biden's shell like.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
I’m not over optimistic, just not doom and gloom with every setback. For me to become defeatist I would have to think that it would somehow help. It would, it would help Trump.
The knee-jerk responses will (and are) give way to more considered analysis over the next few days and weeks. Real voting up to this point is still indicating a definite “can’t win primaries without Trump, can’t win actual elections with him” situation for GOP candidates that has been under-reported and under indicated in polling.
Finally, I don’t know how many of Trump’s base you think would have shifted had Biden done better, but I don’t think it would be any. So the impact we will be looking at, is on independents and Democrat voters. If they remain at all concerned for the future of their country, they are not suddenly going to start abstaining or voting for Trump, when they know that there is more to consider than Biden’s performance in a ‘debate' where his opponent was allowed to spout dangerous nonsense for the whole time.
Christ, how easy does debating get, if you are allowed to lie incessantly without challenge?
Tony L
Administrator
FWIW I watched it all, or at least had it on in the background. As such I missed much of the visual aspects as I was web/pfm-browsing on my iPad (as usual), but I did catch the dialogue. Trump was far better than I expected, exactly the lying arrogant grandstanding bully mob boss one expects, Biden far worse, but right, kind, grounded in reality despite obvious frailty. Just going on content Biden won as his pitch was based mostly in truth, Trump’s entirely in lies, but it was still bad. Hugely depressing, but I didn’t feel Biden was quite the disaster the media is presenting, but we are talking about jumping a very, very low bar here. The spark wasn’t there. The ability to punch back wasn’t there. He looked like a fading man.
tones
Tones deaf
It comes down to the fact that Trump is a stage performer and Biden is not - and the "entertainment" factor counts for a lot (think Johnson).
It was as I feared - Trump lied his leg off, but he did so with energy and conviction and he managed not to go off on one of his incoherent rants (clearly he had listened to whoever coached him for a change). So the uncommitted who don't study policy differences (and therefore will miss the fact that Trump is lacking any sort of policies that make any sense) will compare an energetic person with an old dodderer and draw conclusions for which the whole planet may have to pay.
It was as I feared - Trump lied his leg off, but he did so with energy and conviction and he managed not to go off on one of his incoherent rants (clearly he had listened to whoever coached him for a change). So the uncommitted who don't study policy differences (and therefore will miss the fact that Trump is lacking any sort of policies that make any sense) will compare an energetic person with an old dodderer and draw conclusions for which the whole planet may have to pay.
tones
Tones deaf
Meanwhile, an out-of-control Supreme Court visits more disasters on the US:
Supreme Court ruling slashes federal agency powers
Justices also rule homeless can be punished for sleeping rough in major decisions released on Friday.
www.bbc.com
Nick_G
pfm Member
It's not so much as being defeatist, it's just that all the people and institutions that should be fighting Trump's insanity are just so awful at it. They're treating him as if the normal rules apply. All this does is normalise such behaviour, and gives Trump and his droogs more ammunition. That is not the way to defeat an authoritarian fascist whose election will very likely destroy America as we know it. I think the Dems should have been much more forceful in opposing Trump, and yes, played it dirty if need be. Like I say, the normal rules don't apply in a situation like this.
Tony L
Administrator
<moderating>
Given another thread has appeared I’ll lock this one and let the other take the weight of America falling to fascism or whatever nightmare is ahead…
pinkfishmedia.net
Given another thread has appeared I’ll lock this one and let the other take the weight of America falling to fascism or whatever nightmare is ahead…
US Election, November 2024
June and things are hotting up. We don't even know for sure who is facing up against who..... Right now this important event on Guy Fawkes day looks like an unholy train wreck..... https://www.aol.co.uk/news/panic-mode-democrats-begin-calling-044615946.html
pinkfishmedia.net
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