Paying for Reviews....is that fair?

[Fox]

But if you have no idea on what the basis of what you "like" is founded upon then it is just meaningless space filling until you die. I would rather understand just one piece of music intimately and have a complete and utter knowledge of a work than just sit back and wallow in the self indulgence of a thousand pieces of music.

Its a divide, and it is going to keep me over there while you are over here. I know, and it gets harder to cross every time i read populist writing about music.

 

[Joe Hutch]

I dunno. I like listening to music, but don't know much about it (in terms of structure, who influenced whom, etc).

OTOH, the more I know about literature (in terms of structure, who influenced whom, etc), the more I appreciate/enjoy it.

So maybe Fox is right and maybe a bit of hard work wouldn't go amiss wrt to musical appreciation/enjoyment (which is not say you can't enjoy music without understanding it).

 

[whatsnext]

I dunno. I like listening to music, but don't know much about it (in terms of structure, who influenced whom, etc).

OTOH, the more I know about literature (in terms of structure, who influenced whom, etc), the more I appreciate/enjoy it.

So maybe Fox is right and maybe a bit of hard work wouldn't go amiss wrt to musical appreciation/enjoyment (which is not say you can't enjoy music without understanding it).

I am not looking to increase my intellectual awareness of music. To do so would negate pleasure. If it appeals to you to do so...... enjoy

This is reading like one of our (none) gurus educating us on how to enjoy our HiFi the way they do.

 

[ciderglider]

Classical is a lot harder. I sort of agree about the previous reviewer from a few years ago, but in fairness he was extremely well liked by the readers. Many ask for their classical reviews to be written from the viewpoint of a collector, rather than a musicologist. Since our previous reviewer stood down due to ill health, we have struggled to fill his shoes. Paradoxically, using music graduates doesn't work well here, because they read like they swallowed a Grove and they tend to refuse to leave their comfort zones. So, you end up with singers writing about choral, lieder and opera, pianists writing about piano music and so on. Unless you have a large and varied pool of musicians willing to write for less money than they have to spend to buy the music in the first place, the problem simply doesn't go away.

The bloke who retired due to ill health generally gave the impression he knew what he was talking about; most of those who have followed him in HiFi+ don't. Their reviews amount to little more than a paraphrase of the sleeve notes. However, over the past six months or so a new reviewer has come on board, and the reviews have improved.

 

[whatsnext]

And for the OP no it isn't fair but what makes you think it should have to be fair?

 

[Still]

By making up glowing reviews for the equipment I already own, and photoshopping them in to hifi magazine articles, I have saved myself loads of money.
If I feeling anxious about the sq in my listening room, I simply read these and am instantly reassured my system is the best.

 

[Fox]

I am not looking to increase my intellectual awareness of music. To do so would negate pleasure.

Oh wow. I thought I was messed up. That kind of mindset can lead to all sorts of dark places.

 

[wirbeltier]

Well, there is bliss to be had in ignorance...and I do not mean that as an insult in any way!!!

There is such a thing as knowing too much, I have found.

 

[clivem2]

There all sorts of ways we can enjoy music, some informed, some not. It's not so different to some saying that musicians have "the right" view of audio systems, several I've spoken with seem to value the ability to analyse how an instrument is being played - this is not musical enjoyment in my book. Having said this I think that for classical music understanding the basis for the piece is beneficial and there should be generally be better notes included which are easy to read.

 

[wirbeltier]

I agree...classical music can be very complex, and the enjoyment increases with knowledge.

 

[whatsnext]

Oh wow. I thought I was messed up. That kind of mindset can lead to all sorts of dark places.

Fox

You are messed up thinking you can predict how my mind will behave. Yours may if you know yourself well but you have not got the begining of knowledge about my mind. Sad to have to say so.

I am sure you meant well.

Fox. Just seen that you are banned. If it is true sorry to see that has happened. I can think of a few more deserving cases who seem blessed

 

[F1eng]

I only look at 6-moons for pictures.
The text is pure bollox IMO, and this has been my opinion since it first surfaced.

 

[neil]

But if you have no idea on what the basis of what you "like" is founded upon then it is just meaningless space filling until you die. I would rather understand just one piece of music intimately and have a complete and utter knowledge of a work than just sit back and wallow in the self indulgence of a thousand pieces of music.

Its a divide, and it is going to keep me over there while you are over here. I know, and it gets harder to cross every time i read populist writing about music.

Fox, simple response is don't read it coz it winds you up but don't criticise it because it is fit for purpose (it's intended audience which isn't you or anyone with serious musical training).

Wrt the OP I haven't looked at 6moons in an age but I'd say in response "so what?". The arrangement does not preclude a truthful review for one thing. For another, any review is at best useful in pointing you at something you might want to audition for yourself to make up your own mind. I'd have to be a complete moron to buy an expensive piece of kit based on a review alone. Don't see Internet forums as being any different from 6moons either. You have absolutely no idea of the motivations driving anyone's posting so again it can, at best, be a pointer to something to audition.

 

[mattgbell]

I dunno. I like listening to music, but don't know much about it (in terms of structure, who influenced whom, etc).

OTOH, the more I know about literature (in terms of structure, who influenced whom, etc), the more I appreciate/enjoy it.

So maybe Fox is right and maybe a bit of hard work wouldn't go amiss wrt to musical appreciation/enjoyment (which is not say you can't enjoy music without understanding it).

To me that seems bang on.

I wish I had a greater technical understanding of music. One day, when I have the time, I'll make a concerted effort.

I do have a good understanding of literature though -- its historical, technical and theoretical aspects. Lit crit is my day job. And I have no problem discussing literature with the "general reader"*. In fact, I actively seek out those discussions, because they're interesting. From my POV, anyone who cares about literature is interesting to talk to about it.

And if, as a critic or reviewer, you can't bridge the gap between your own technical knowledge and what the "general reader" wants to know, then you've failed.

* I don't really like this term, but it's widely used in the publishing business and it doesn't do too much harm.

 

[Joe Hutch]

And if, as a critic or reviewer, you can't bridge the gap between your own technical knowledge and what the "general reader" wants to know, then you've failed.

* I don't really like this term, but it's widely used in the publishing business and it doesn't do too much harm.

It's better than Virginia Woolf's term 'The Common Reader'!

 

[YNWOAN]

Oddly - I've just read the new copy of Plush and there is a music review of Kathrin DeBoer's 10". In said review a parallel is drawn between her music and that of Portishead; I don't know about anyone else but that seems a very tenuous link to me!

 

[Igloo Audio]

I have just realised that 'Six Moons' now has an official policy of demanding that any manufacturer who wants a review has to buy advertising space....In advance. The stated reason is that Six Moons wants the money. It expects to be paid for what it does.
Is that pretty blatant? Or a simple admission that such a policy is the only viable course for a web-based 'magazine' ?
Could you trust reviews known to have been (in effect) 'bought'?

If I approach a magazine to write a review, I will have to spend money on advertising.

That doesn't guarantee you an excellent review (Blue Moon Award), but clearly the magazine or website will take a balanced view in light of the advertising spend. On occasion, I have been offered a product review FOC, which normally is a "Best DAC under £1000" group test or other agenda.

Peter

 

[louballoo]

To directly answer the OP. Old guy's like me can tell you the hifi business hasn't always been so full of creeps. These days it just gets slimier by the month. I'm glad I have other diversions.

Louballoo

 

[Robert]

Its wrong at every level - I just hope that anyone who submits a product for review has paid there account in full....

Account in arrears - would you be surprised if you received a poor review?

Another nail in the coffin for the respectability of our shrinking industry....

Sad and depressing

Yes it's very sad.

In the old days the industry was so large that the mix of income from advertising and sales from circulation will have been more balanced. You would also often have the same magazine giving a glowing report about one product and a poor one on another, from the same manufacturer because product ranges were usually large and revisions frequent.

The best way to treat any press, printed or online, is as a rough guide or supplement to the brochures and product info guides. In that sense they still have a function IMO.

 

[topoxforddoc]

You only have to look at the way that newspapers have gone now. The (Evening) Standard in London has been a free paper, based on advertising sales to fund the journalism and printing. Metro is the same.

Sadly the world of Hi-Fi is a rapidly diminishing one. Apart from the odd youngster getting into vinyl, most of our youth listen on their iPods, Phones or on Spotify. The circulation numbers for the Hi-Fi mags is now much, much smaller than in their heyday in the late 70s/early80s.

We would still expect a reviewer to have an excellent reference system in a decent room. No mid-fi solutions in a tiny bedroom - certainly if one were being asked to review a high end piece of equipment. Apart from that, one would hope that a reviewer might spend a bit of time with the reviewed item before pronouncing. This all costs money and time.

The purported 6Moons model may not be isolated just to that on line site. I would not be surprised of similar circumstances surround reviews in other bits of hi-fi media. So what does one do, if one were a boutique high end hi-fi manufacturer? How does one get word out to the hi-fi community and potential buyers about your equipment? Hi-Fi Forum members, who want to save money (very laudable) and only buy second hand, are not their target market.

So, is 6Moons really that bad. The reviewers certainly have very expensive systems in large spaces (at least Marja and Henk do). They seem to spend a long time reviewing the items. Almost all the items are high end, and therefore likely to sound good. Hence most pieces of reviewed kit will have good reviews. But not every piece does, and occasionally kit gets slammed on that site too.

Sadly it's the way of the world now with review by payment of some sort or another (directly or indirectly). I feel very sorry for all the great British designers and Hi-Fi manufacturers, who are trying to make a living in the current market. They will only survive, if people buy NEW pieces of equipment.

Charlie