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Paying for Reviews....is that fair?

I have to say, I think this is one of the most enjoyable, refreshing and stimulating threads on here for a long time, not least due to the thread drift. So, thank you Fox, for taking us in such an unexpected direction.

However, I don’t think it is fair of you to suggest that the argument (that an academic article presented to a non-academic audience is inappropriate), is indicative of an anti-intellectual approach. There are places where an academic article would be necessary, and places where it would be helpful, and places where it is the very last thing you would need or want. If one is blind to the requirements of the context, then one probably won’t be successful as a writer.

Suffice to say, I enjoyed my time doing musical analysis and was quite good at it, and I’m quite sure my musical education has added a valuable dimension to my appreciation of music. In that respect, I completely agree with you.

Where I disagree, is in your somewhat uncompromising stance regarding any other approach to music and music writing, as somehow invalid, unworthy or contemptible. If a reader has no understanding of the difference between a mode and a key, and may never have encountered the term ‘mode’ in the context of music, then it will make sense to describe a change as a ‘key’ change if that is what the uneducated listener will likely perceive. Similarly, changes in time signature or beaming across the bar may be perceived by a casual listener as a change in tempo, even if the notation gives the lie to that.

Occasionally it pokes my inner pedant, too, but I can see that it may sometimes be valid. There is nothing wrong in describing something in the way that the intended readership will better understand, and everything wrong in deliberately writing several feet above your readers’ heads, to make some sort of pseudointellectual point.
 
I agree its fun (for me) I guess not for the folk ignoring me (for their sakes don't quote me)


Ok but this is the bit that bites (for me)

If the language is insufficient, if there is just one aspect (say, "emotional response-y [hand waving]... stuff") then what precisely are the non technical readers understanding? What is it about the music that is being correctly and accurately conveyed? Or is it just inaccurately conveyed but very entertaining prose? Are people whose primary focus is on music and not on reproduction boxes happy with fuzzy concepts and inarticulate hand waving when they can just put in a bit of effort?

Or is it after all that people are actually more interested in the boxes and that inaccurate but "articulately fuzzy on the concepts we are dealing with here" music reviews are like the letters pages in a porno magazine or at best the non pervy articles they used to print...
 
No, but I am not sure they ever did. You have to assess degrees of enthusiasm in the reviews, daming with faint praise if you like. I have read somewhere, that magazines don't tend to print bad reviews, it is wasting space. I am not sure what they do with really awful kit, perhaps ask the manufacturer if they really want a poor review printed.

I was listening to a radio programm on Amazon consumer reviews. It said that manufacturers really care a great deal how many stars I might give to a CD and send free ones to regular"sympathetic reviewers". That is only a solitary review hidden amongst thousands of others.

I have read some of the HiFi mags for years and not because AS may be looking over my shoulder, I have found Plush, to be the best. It seems the most literate and interesting to read and I think you can gauge degrees of enthusiasm quite easily. Despite the comments about it's music reviews, they have been the most useful to me, having found a number of artists I had never heard of, whom I enjoy.

Having said that, I have bought it since issue 18 I think and I am not renewing my subscription. Partly because there are more reviews of things I am not interested in, like headphones, though I am not complaining about them being there. Mainly, having refound my early 80's enthusiasm for HiFi, in about 1998, extinguished by marriage and kids, I know have a settled setup I am happy with and don't want to develop any more urges to buy kit I don't need, by reading reviews.

Looking at it from the other side, the magazines that don't have adverts, I am thinking of HiFi critic and Bound for Sound in the US, they have different problems. I have chatted with editors of both and they can find it difficult to get kit to review. Manufacturers seem to think an advertising budget gives them some hold over the content of reviews. Thus they may feel they have no control over these publications, where there is no budget. For that reason they don't seem to publish bad reviews either, or they won't get anything to review at all, unless they buy it. I am not sure how they handle that, perhaps just send the kit back saying, " you really don't want my review of this product"

TBPH, the review process is now largely geared toward providing a simulation of the auditioning/buying process, which is especially important in parts of the world where visiting your local dealer is a 1,000 mile round trip. As a result, audio reviews have become something like a consumer electronics dating agency, with the nuances of the review designed to help find the ideal match for the reader. And, just like a dating agency, "this one's a right munter" isn't the kind of response wanted by anyone who is using the process as intended.

Back to the OP, I can understand Srajan's frustrations here, although I don't agree necessarily with his plans. A lot of the smaller audio companies consider the review process as their personal free consultancy/public relations service. This can be a very lengthy process, and one that seems extremely one-sided in many cases. I don't mind imparting an international perspective, or discussing sales, marketing, web-design, or distribution to a newcomer, but when you begin to realise that you are helping build that company's entire brand strategy, and have spent the better part of a day providing them with a complete audio industry 'go' pack in exchange for a cappuccino, you begin to get a little batty.

The worst one in this was years ago, when the guy who helped himself to my Rolodex! He actually stole my friggin' contacts out of my Rolodex (back in the day when it was a Rolodex and not my Outlook contacts list). Not copy them, like a good spy, but physically pull the cards out of my spinny-thing. Apparently, that is 'all part of the service'.

To do all this, and get other people to pay for the 'service' you get for free is a little bit unfair, regardless of whether the people ending up paying are rival manufacturers or end users. Srajan is asking for direct payback in exchange for reviews, as a result. Given he deals with some truly small-fry manufacturers at times, I can imagine this free consultancy service thing is really getting to him.

I don't think it's the right move, as I still think of advertising as a form of patronage, like a series of 17th Century Hapsburg princes. The advertising does not buy review spaces, it buys the continued likelihood of their being a review space for your product, and at best oils the wheels of getting your product a review slot. 6moons takes that a stage further.

Despite this, I don't think either has an influence on the outcome of the review process itself. The integrity of the reviewer should not be affected by whether the review is sponsored by a plurality of manufacturers, or as a direct singular manufacturer paying its 'slot'. The result should be the same, and if it isn't, it's more an issue of the reviewer's integrity being compromised than the process itself. There is still a disconnect (in theory, at least) because the transaction pays for the review 'slot', not the words. I think this is a distinction that will be very hard to process, harder to differentiate, and harder still to police. And as I said, I don't personally agree with the concept, but I wish him well with it.
 
I agree its fun (for me) I guess not for the folk ignoring me (for their sakes don't quote me)


Ok but this is the bit that bites (for me)

If the language is insufficient, if there is just one aspect (say, "emotional response-y [hand waving]... stuff") then what precisely are the non technical readers understanding? What is it about the music that is being correctly and accurately conveyed? Or is it just inaccurately conveyed but very entertaining prose? Are people whose primary focus is on music and not on reproduction boxes happy with fuzzy concepts and inarticulate hand waving when they can just put in a bit of effort?

Or is it after all that people are actually more interested in the boxes and that inaccurate but "articulately fuzzy on the concepts we are dealing with here" music reviews are like the letters pages in a porno magazine or at best the non pervy articles they used to print...

Understanding is not generally the purpose of a modern review. A review in a mainstream context is a filter process now: "There's a million and one things identical to this out there, but out of that multiplicity, I like this one because of X. You might agree if you like X, too."

Your dinner party phenomenon is not an isolated one. The difficulty is this is entirely undirected; fine if you are 'riffing' at a dinner party, but this makes it difficult to distinguish signal from trivia (noise), especially for those not fully engaged in a concept. An early victim of the information revolution was the curator. We have virtually infinite access to practically every scintilla of information and art form at our fingers at almost any moment in time now, but scant means of filtering, directing, or curating that information. Wikipedia can be like a vast library, but with no version of the Dewey system.

The review, no matter how surface – or even how inaccurate – is an attempt at filtering or even curating all that information. And to some, that's a useful service.

That was all said without resorting to pithy quotes.
 
This reminds me a bit of the old Radio 3 forum (RIP) which seemed to exist so that soi-disant experts in "Western Art Music" (the only valid Art Music) could berate the BBC for corrupting their Radio 3 with programmes that were not exclusively "Western Art Music".

When asked why "Western Art Music" was the only valid Art Music, they had no real answer except to say, in various degrees of erudition, that it was because they thought so.

They were very dismissive of "relativism" but, conversely, could not enunciate any objective measure of "Art".

I believe they now exist as the For3 forum, and are still ignored by the BBC...
 
Wittgenstein also said, "a good and serious philosophical work could be written consisting entirely of jokes", which is probably the best thing ever written in, of, and about academic philosophy.

My NCTJ training did emphasis accuracy, as well as grammar and proof-reading. I would have been in the dog-house for 'NTCJ'. You would have been in the dog-house for putting that full stop on the wrong side of the parenthesis. And for making up your own style of ellipsis...

That's the beauty of grammar pedantry; some love it, but it is fewer interesting than a lot of other things to most people.

Wittgenstein also wrote : 'philosophy begins when language goes on holiday.' Not that language on these forums ever gets further than Barnsley, beach towel included.
 
Well I have just had a look at http://www.6moons.com/

if anyone enjoys using that site for anything then they deserve all they get. Build to look pretty with poor navigation. Much self lauding of who created it

For example click on the above url goes to http://www.6moons.com/showcase/showcase.html choosing Audio or Music Reviews the same page

When eventually I got to something it was of little interest and confirmed opinions I had read that it was a total self indulgence of the owner.

Nothing to return to at a future date. The fact the owner bombards some web sites with news of their latest postings suggests a desperation to get visitors.
 
I think people have 6moons all wrong... To me it is more like the HiFi equipment version of one of those boutique showrooms where you get Gucci, Cartier, YSL and so on all rubbing shoulders, looking fabulous, because you are fabulous for being here and we are all fabulous because life, with us... is fabulous. Its a boutique showroom. Reading it is like listening to a wonderful oratory being given in a language you do not understand. I could sense something ... fabulous is going on, but it was just beyond my grasp.

I like it. Its fun. It must really irk the purists.
 
Its a boutique showroom. Reading it is like listening to a wonderful oratory being given in a language you do not understand. I could sense something ... fabulous is going on, but it was just beyond my grasp.
That's how I sometimes feel when reading your posts.
 
I think so, yes. I see no discontinuity between the two viewpoints.
Life's great like that.
 


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