Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Again. This action by P&O is nothing to do with brexit.
If Starmer leads Labour to a 2024 GE win that will be fine by me. I hope that is clear enough to avoid any future fabrication of position on it.
P&O Ferries Scandal
- Thread starter gavreid
- Start date
If Starmer leads Labour to a 2024 GE win that will be fine by me. I hope that is clear enough to avoid any future fabrication of position on it.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Again. You cannot ignore the Brexit conceit in this. Brexit was supposed to stop UK workers being replaced with cheaper foreign labour, that was all the fault of being in the EU. I understand your desperation to see it otherwise, given the drivel you wasted oxygen with at the time.
I've not suggested you wouldn't vote for Starmer's Labour, but others here have said just that.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
What on earth is ‘brexit conceit’?
I understand your desperation to pin the blame for everything baad on brexit, given ‘the drivel you wasted oxygen with for the last 6 years’ campaigning against democracy.
Not everything bad is because of brexit. Try to take that in.
Regarding the Starmer point. I never said you suggested it, I’m just making my position clear for you, not that it will sink in with some. After all, I have said that I don’t support brexit, yet you don’t appear to understand that straightforward comment so there is no guarantee you will understand my position on Starmer either.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Your position is never clear, you shift like the sands. Nobody campaigned against democracy, something else you made up. Along with "Not everything is bad because of Brexit" because nobody said that either. Brexit was supposed to prevent UK workers being replaced with cheaper foreign labour, because we didn't have 'control' - it was bollox and still is as evidenced by P&O doing just that.
That sort of thing was only supposed to happen because we were in the EU. Ah but, etc..
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Wrong. My position has not shifted at all and would not shift should there be another referendum. Perhaps you can cite my position that has shifted, since you made the accusation? I have no respect for those who called for the referendum vote to be ignored. Never have had. Your attempt to pretend nobody was calling for that comes as no surprise.
Your second last sentence is irrelevant in this thread, which is about the P&O action against the workforce. The last sentence too.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
There you go again, you can't help it. Nobody called for a referendum to be ignored, plenty of folk wanted a vote on the actual deal, rather than the fantasy promises but you know that and instead choose to make more stuff up.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
The decline of worker rights has a longer history than Brexit, so to put the decline of worker rights on Brexit goes against reality
Having said that, what P&O does demonstrate is that those who said that workers would be better off after Brexit were, and are, talking complete giraffe testicles, that is, bollocks of the highest order
Having said that, what P&O does demonstrate is that those who said that workers would be better off after Brexit were, and are, talking complete giraffe testicles, that is, bollocks of the highest order
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
The irony is that group includes the RMT.
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-sets-out-six-key-reasons-for-leaving-the-eu/
What the hell was the leadership thinking? Were they that naïve?
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
It was more in character before your edit. You should have left it, tough guy.
Plenty of accusations from you, as usual, but no evidence, as usual.
SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Plenty of waffle from you, no substance as usual.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
I can’t offer any substance for your claim the P&O situation is because of brexit, that’s because it isn’t due to brexit. Perhaps posting real evidence to support your claim will help, rather than emotional waffle? Pointing out the truth, no matter how much you can’t understand it is not waffle.
droodzilla
pfm Member
The facts of the P&O decision are clear. Weak employment laws in the UK made it easy for P&O to shaft its workers. Those laws predate Brexit and are the legacy of Thatcher ane New Labour.
Regarding the bigger picture, it's easy to say it's all connected to Brexit but that, in itself is not an argument. I have no intention of relitigating the Brexit debate now (life's too short). Suffice to say, I believe you have the order of causation (almost) exactly the wrong way round.
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sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
So the news is now claiming the new staff will be paid £1.80ph. Er surely that's illegal, or or they employed outside the jurisdiction of UK and Europe courts. Or is it just a bullshit number made up on the basis that the company feeds and houses them also and charges for that and similar service.
Either way if the number is true p&o should be struck off and banned from operating in the UK.
Either way if the number is true p&o should be struck off and banned from operating in the UK.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
Just seen reported on itv they can get away with the diabolical £1.80ph because their ferries or company ( didn’t quite catch it ) is registered in Cyprus.
Agree completely with your last sentence. It’s a disgrace.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
Haven't read the whole thread.
Seems to me to be maybe a bit about Brexit, but Brexit really doesn't need more evidence of its failure both in ambition and execution and it doesn't need P&O in it's list of non benefits.
Seems to me to be more in the equally rich area of 'Things We No Longer Own', which also includes half of London, our Rail and Bus companies, our Waste Disposal, our Steel industry , our Automotive Industry...etc.etc.etc.
Most of these sell offs were enacted for short term gain by share holders, with the encouragement of (mostly) Tory, Thatcherite politicians who have no interest in this country's future, except insofar as it provides a useful 'bolt hole' for them and their money, or the opportunity to buy up a nice view.
Successive Tory Govt's have been selling our future since at least Thatcher and finally the effects of this theft are becoming apparent to ordinary people.
Seems to me to be maybe a bit about Brexit, but Brexit really doesn't need more evidence of its failure both in ambition and execution and it doesn't need P&O in it's list of non benefits.
Seems to me to be more in the equally rich area of 'Things We No Longer Own', which also includes half of London, our Rail and Bus companies, our Waste Disposal, our Steel industry , our Automotive Industry...etc.etc.etc.
Most of these sell offs were enacted for short term gain by share holders, with the encouragement of (mostly) Tory, Thatcherite politicians who have no interest in this country's future, except insofar as it provides a useful 'bolt hole' for them and their money, or the opportunity to buy up a nice view.
Successive Tory Govt's have been selling our future since at least Thatcher and finally the effects of this theft are becoming apparent to ordinary people.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
Whilst some members argue it's not, others argue that it is, but the one you agree with is definitive?
On the other hand, does anyone know how many trucks are now not travelling to the continent on P&O ferries as a result of Brexit red tape and how badly this has impacted their business model?
I also wonder whether another government - i.e. not this Brexit fuelled monstrosity - would have worked harder to put a stop to this action, given that they knew about it in advance.
Graham B
pfm Member
For anyone interested in a little insight into the industry, I’d recommend ‘Deep Sean and Foreign Going’ by Rose George.
She had the opportunity to join a container ship on a leg from the U.K. to Asia, and explains a lot of the technical and operational aspects, but concentrates largely on the human element.
Basically, seafarers are largely ignored, exploited and mistreated by a large number of players, including their employers and the supposed regulators.
Where does a seafarer go for help if he fears for his life on a Marshall Islands registered, Greek owned, Norwegian financed ship operated by mostly Indian and Romanian crew when he is employed by an exploitative agency in Manila?
The situation above did not arise overnight, and has been driven by multiple issues and parties over decades, some of them essentially criminal interests.
The ecological issues and impacts are also dealt with in an interesting and wide ranging way. A good read.
She had the opportunity to join a container ship on a leg from the U.K. to Asia, and explains a lot of the technical and operational aspects, but concentrates largely on the human element.
Basically, seafarers are largely ignored, exploited and mistreated by a large number of players, including their employers and the supposed regulators.
Where does a seafarer go for help if he fears for his life on a Marshall Islands registered, Greek owned, Norwegian financed ship operated by mostly Indian and Romanian crew when he is employed by an exploitative agency in Manila?
The situation above did not arise overnight, and has been driven by multiple issues and parties over decades, some of them essentially criminal interests.
The ecological issues and impacts are also dealt with in an interesting and wide ranging way. A good read.
cooky1257
pfm Member
It's possible for the three things to be true at the same time ie RMT were motivated by the promise of increased uk member protection if we left the EU, for the promise of this protection to be just another Brexit illusion/lie and that pre/existing UK employment law is so loaded in favour of employers that P&O have been able to sack the 800 at any time of their choosing ie Brexit didn't enable P&O to sack these workers, it has sod all to with Brexit.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
There must, surely, be some sort of ‘fit and proper person’ test in the granting of a ferry licence or operator’s licence? If so are there not, at the very least, reasonable questions to be asked as to how safety can be maintained using a poorly paid crew parachuted in and unfamiliar with either the vessel, or the routes (which entails crossing the world’s busiest shipping lane)?