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Open letter denouncing the "restriction of debate".

So back on topic...this Bret W. fellow is a bit of an odd duck, it seems.

But he appears to be thriving as the first victim of leftist mobs - was on Tucker Carlson recently, just finished a guest year at Princeton, has a devoted following.

Matbe his great suffering led to a newfound purpose for his life. He went from a professor at an obscure college to a leader of a movement that is fielding independent presidential candidates. Cool beans!

He has, maybe unwittingly, tapped into the fears of the post-communist immigrant communities, as I try to explain below.
 
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Here is a link to one of the latest of Bret W.'s "Dark Horse" podcasts.

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i've only watched the first 20 minutes and i have to go to bed now, but so far, this is brilliant stuff. it's the way intelligent social scientists assess things. thank you for sharing!
 
i've only watched the first 20 minutes and i have to go to bed now, but so far, this is brilliant stuff. it's the way intelligent social scientists assess things. thank you for sharing!
Excellent! He has MANY more. However, before we all praise famous men, lets note they are professors of evolutionary biology and English and Creole languages...talking about politics. They are not actual social scientists - they are just playing them on the internet.

So here is a bit of original "reporting" I can offer. Through my mother I am losely connected to the Russian-American community. The preamble is that in immigrant communities, especially ones from former communist countries; if you come younger than 16 you will grow up to be liberal, 25 and up are conservatives and in-betweens are mixed. This works accross all continents...see "Dreaming in Cuban," for example. Leads to A LOT of generational strife. I was 13 when we arrived.

Older Russian-Americans are REALLY triggered by the racial justice protests. Their consensus is they are witnessing the riise of communism in America. There is wide-spread depression - I recently had to redirect my mother away from Fox News Seattle Autonomous Zone coverage to a set of videos and news stories about recent SpaceX successful Crew Dragon launch to the Space Station. I am an aerospace guy, which made it easy, but she was really scared. It's exactly the non-academic version of the sentiments expressed in the Bret W. podcast.

When I told her we were putting up a BLM banner and an American flag she fearfully asked if the mobs will attack our house because of the flags. Here in Waltham; other than the peaceful demonstrations, the only "mobs" we have are on the newly car-closed Moody Street - aka the restaurant row. She lives in the same city.

I can easily rationalize this away as delusions of the elderly. Yet I love them, so...food for thought.

P.S. above is offered as an observation, not as an endorsement of the "law and order" viewpoint.
 
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LOL, you can’t even grasp Matthew’s sense of humour either!

To be clear the post of mine that @vuk posted was a light-hearted joke because of the acting against type each of you were displaying in that thread. I have known both of you for about the same length of time (20 years!) consider bother of you to be friends and I was poking fun at you both. I disagree with you both politically all the time, but this is not surprising as it's only the absence of children that stop me from being a Centrist Dad.
 
It's interesting that the upshot of Evergreen for Weinstein was a thriving podcast and a job at Princeton.
 
It's interesting that the upshot of Evergreen for Weinstein was a thriving podcast and a job at Princeton.
The "uncancel culture"? This victim of leftist totalitarianism has been "canceled" so well he is on Fox News and all over the internet with his podcast. Also at Princeton...can I get "canceled" too?

If I did, it could be my only chance to say to Carlson that he is an as$hole. My guess is Bret didn't...

Maybe I can get cancelled for picking the wrong radar band for our new system. My office would be picketed by a multiracial demonstration of RF engineers shouting "X, X, X, - L is racist!" A documentary will be made chronicling my suffering.

And before I know it, I will be interviewing VUK on my cool podcast - "The Dark Radar" - and packing my bags for Stanford to teach a seminar on Radar Racism...sweet dreams.

P.S. above is irony

P.P.S: Bret"s Tucker Carlson interview...cringe-worthy, unfortunately, though relatively short:


A useful idiot, in the the words of Vladimir Il'ich Lenin.
 
Let me get this straight:

We are now seriously discussing - for days - if an episode of student anger and faculty conflict in a small college (Olympia, WA...storied location) is indicative of racialized totalitarianism engulfing civilization through the trojan horse of BLM movement.

Really?

And yet ... here you are, seriously discussing it.
 
The "uncancel culture"? This victim of leftist totalitarianism has been "canceled" so well he is on Fox News and all over the internet with his podcast. Also at Princeton...can I get "canceled" too?

To be clear, I think it's interesting in that it says something about his privilege as a white, college professor from a well regarded school that he landed on his feet. Also, despite his occasional odd bedfellows, he does seem to be a perfectly decent, thoughtful chap and is no doubt an excellent professor.
 
If I did, it could be my only chance to say to Carlson that he is an as$hole. My guess is Bret didn't...

Although he is pitching his Unity 2020 idea (which sounds like the most non-starting, non-starter ever) so he kind of has to go on things like Carlson and Rogan for it to have any chance.
 
To be clear, I think it's interesting in that it says something about his privilege as a white, college professor from a well regarded school that he landed on his feet. Also, despite his occasional odd bedfellows, he does seem to be a perfectly decent, thoughtful chap and is no doubt an excellent professor.
I mostly agree. Evegreen State College is not on most students shortlist...though very likely a fine school well deserving of our respect. There are many fine colleges like it. My daughter goes to a BIG state school - her choice - but we saw many fine small schools led by fabulous BIO faculty (her major) - so one could get a great education; irrespective of school size.

Though I may be forgiven to suggest that his occasional bedfellows are strategic rather than truly by chance or necessity.
 
Although he is pitching his Unity 2020 idea (which sounds like the most non-starting, non-starter ever) so he kind of has to go on things like Carlson and Rogan for it to have any chance.
It is a plausible explanation...for an explanation.

With Trump jonesing for a second term, why dig out Yang and an unknown admiral for a pseudo-democratic spoiler ticket?

His obvious issues with the BLM movement may offer a clue. Academics are complicated...and they think they can save the world, because they know best...a deadly combination.
 
This thread has become one of those bad movies, it’s terrible but strangely compelling. I am currently watching a pretty terrible film so I am not sure which is the more distracting.
 
This thread has become one of those bad movies, it’s terrible but strangely compelling. I am currently watching a pretty terrible film so I am not sure which is the more distracting.
And yet how MSM and academia chooses to reflect the anti-racism protests is very important. And I am not a big fan of either.
 
some guy on the internet sets the stage (i'd say he's pretty spot on with the summary):

"Once a year, Evergreen State University (located just outside of Seattle), allows the students of colour to take a day of absence, so that their importance and contribution is felt at the University. Bret Weinstein, as a progressive, was and has been on board for this for a long time.

A year ago, they flipped the logic. Rather than telling people of colour to stay away for the day, they told white people that they are not welcome on campus for a day. Absence wasn’t compulsory, but highly recommended."

from: https://medium.com/@jakubferencik/t...-explained-the-evergreen-scandal-f3dfe07b1d70



then this is weinstein's email message in response to the "event" change:

Weinstein2.png

I’m aware of all that. I just suspect there has to be more too it, maybe as the Huff Post article suggested, heightened racist tension in the outside culture etc. I maintain a large body of students don’t flip from ‘normal’ to ‘riot’ as a binary state, this will have built-up over a far, far longer period than that, but as the black student voices involved are now either being silenced or have given up in despair we just don’t know. I find it both interesting and quite telling you seemingly have zero interest in this aspect of the case.

Lets now take the issue of Weinstein’s sacking:

The student body clearly did not do this as they do not have the power to do it. A college/university is like all other business entities, it has a hierarchical structure, HR processes, employment contracts, unions etc. The people above Weinstein in the college establishment clearly thought he had done something that made his continued presence at the college untenable. It is they who ultimately made the choice. They were the only people with the power to act.

Weinstein appears to have received a half million dollar pay-off. This maybe suggests his dismissal wasn’t a simple matter of ‘gross misconduct’ or whatever, possibly that he had the potential to drag them through the courts should he wish, but it also suggests they viewed his continued presence at the college so toxic that stumping up such a huge amount of money to get shut of him was a good business decision.

This is clearly not as simplistic or one-sided as you are desperately trying to paint it.

For clarity; I actually have little interest in the specific event, as Matthew said ‘students gonna student’ (though I remain certain there is more to this than I currently know). I’m far more interested in the way ugly elements of the far-right weaponise this sort of event under the ‘false flag’ of free speech, and do it so successfully even self-professed ‘leftists’ can get suckered in. As a forum owner this is very interesting to me!

PS Regarding accusations of ‘ageism’ upthread: student life and radical politics is a young person’s thing and it almost always involves railing against elderly white elites. As a 57 year old white straight male I am thankfully sufficiently self-aware to grasp this. I fondly remember being young, sharp and radical, and I’d far prefer to listen and learn from what is happening right now. I certainly refuse to judge and sneer at young people who are in their own way doing all the things I did at their age. Some of the most powerful arguments and voices today are from this generation, as they have been throughout history. There is nothing more depressing to me than a political field of Trump, Putin, Biden, Sanders, Corbyn etc. Is this really the best we have?! I want nothing more than to hand the baton to a much younger generation. We’ve had our go and we ballsed it right up.
 
Part of the so-called debate in this thread can be summarised thus:

Person A: A bad behaviour pattern has become too common, and it's hurting innocent people. It needs to stop.
Person B: You're just making sweeping statements. Got any concrete examples?
A: Sure, here you go.
B: Those are celebrities. They don't count.
A: What about that electrician?
B: That's just an isolated incident and doesn't prove there's a broader problem.
A: OK, here are some more cases.
B: I'm sure they had their reasons. Besides, he found a new job in a new city, so it's all good.

It's all a bit no true Scotsman.
 
Although he is pitching his Unity 2020 idea (which sounds like the most non-starting, non-starter ever) so he kind of has to go on things like Carlson and Rogan for it to have any chance.

If he goes on Carlson and Rogan, he's aiming a shotgun firmly at his feet. It's one thing for right-wingers to leap on the free speech bandwagon (various Torygraph loudmouths are doing just that), it's quite another to lend them credibility by appearing on their shows.
 
This thread has become one of those bad movies, it’s terrible but strangely compelling. I am currently watching a pretty terrible film so I am not sure which is the more distracting.

It's actually an interesting, and hugely important issue. Not necessarily because of one academic losing his job, but because of the broader issues about freedom of speech, the extent to which it's acceptable to challenge authority, and whether two wrongs can ever make a right. In the context of free speech, here's Mencken again:

'The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.'
 


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