Oops - Thorens TD 124

[Dowser]

I really did not expect to win this- http://www.ebay.ch/ulk/itm/301850269619only saw it a few hours ago and didn't have time for proper research, have now bought it as most expensive item in last 20 years - too late for sniping so just punted chf 800 thinking no way!

I always wanted to try one, but please tell me I can get my money back if I don't like it

4 digit original TD 124, seems in used but good condition, need to see how early 4xxx serial numbers really are I guess.

Richard

 

[Tony L]

Ha! Over the next couple of years expect to get to know every nut bolt, belt and spring on a first name basis and to be able to identify the special little noise each one can make! All I can tell you from the listing is its an early MkI (it has the earlier step-pulley design, possibly a good thing) and the paint is a bit rough. I'd assume/hope it had the iron platter rather than alloy. The interesting thing will be to see what main bearing it has, very early ones had troublesome plastic bushes that will need replacing (doable yourself). The motor hasn't had it's rivets drilled out so even though the seller claims 'seller refurbished' expect a lot of gunk in there to be cleaned out. The seller seems to have sold some turntables in the past so hopefully knows how to post one - there are several very delicate parts in a 124, most obviously the metal switch connection belt underneath and the flimsy alloy top-platter. If I was shipping one I'd use three good solid boxes within one larger one (chassis, iron platter, upper platter). The good thing is there is a wealth of info and knowledge available on these decks and they are worth the effort. Several threads here and a 186 page monster over a diyaudio.com. Good luck!

 

[Chops54]

Well done Richard. I think you're a bit smarter than you make out sometimes

 

[Dowser]

Thanks both - fell a bit better now - it really was a snap purchase that I never expected to win.

Tony - I'll be collecting it in person I almost prefer complete original, then at least I know what has been done by whom...even if it is done by an amateur! I also hope it is a heavy platter, we'll see.

 

[torstoi]

Congrats Richard !

You seem surprized you spent so much, I don't know exactly how this works exactly,

but anyway...it's a beauty first off..

W/o arm ...not sure that was what you call a total bargain, but then I have absolutely no clue how those are dealt..

Was that you who had some exotic HK tangential tracker in the office ?
I stumbled across this lately & lost the thread again but liked it,,,

Will be watching with interest your journey on this one..

 

[Tony L]

Tony - I'll be collecting it in person I almost prefer complete original, then at least I know what has been done by whom...even if it is done by an amateur! I also hope it is a heavy platter, we'll see.

That's great news, I hate the idea of shipping these turntables and I went down on the train to That London to collect both the MkIIs I've owned. Far safer that way.

According to the Schopper site (link) MkIs have the plastic bearing bushings up to SN 25000. It's no huge issue as you can replace them with sintered bronze ones from eBay for a lot less than a new bearing!

I'll be very interested to see how you get on, obviously we need pictures and regular progress reports. TD-124s can be a challenge, but they are great fun too. I've really enjoyed restoring mine even though I took a few wrong turns, hit some frustrations and spent a heck of lot more than I actually needed to. I kind of like that I now know every tiny detail of the thing, in fact I've probably wasted about half of my brain cells on retaining an exploded 3d map of the thing...

 

[Gerard124]

Well done, a TD-124 is an itch you just have to scratch - there keepers, so don’t worry about selling it on.

 

[Dowser]

Cheers All

Torstoi - I simply didn't expect to win it, thought it would go for over CHF 1k, instead of the 782 it did (about £530). If I had properly thought this through, and done some prior research, I probably would not have bid - I normally buy stuff real cheap, and this item isn't really...but, I've always wanted one...and Tony's recent updates had the idea fresh in my mind. Looking forward to rebuilding and listening to it now though Oh, yes HK ST8 still in my office system - thread here - I have a rebuilt Lenco L75 with AS-212 arm to try in office system too...but I simply love the looks of the Harmon Kardon

Tony - mine is a 4 digit serial number - so suspect it might also have slight smaller diameter main bearings. I collect it Wednesday evening. Is it easy to get the 2 platters off for transporting it?

I'm over the stupidity purchase thing now, and looking forward to rebuilding and hearing this. Will it knock my modified LP12 off it's wall shelf?

Thanks, Richard

 

[Tony L]

Tony - mine is a 4 digit serial number - so suspect it might also have slight smaller diameter main bearings. I collect it Wednesday evening. Is it easy to get the 2 platters off for transporting it?

Very easy to get the platters off, the top platter, which is little more than a biscuit tin lid, just lifts off. The main platter, which is a hefty 4kg or so will pull straight up and off bringing the main bearing shaft with it. Expect some suction here. If you get the impression it really does not want to come off (i.e. suspect a bearing problem) I'd undo the three bolts on top of the platter and lift the platter off the bearing. This is considered poor form in some circles as you lose the factory alignment of the platter on bearing shaft, but chances are someone has taken it off already so likely a non-issue. Take great care of the top platter when packing, they are very easy to bend and almost impossible to straighten.

I didn't realise the early MkI bearing was a different thickness, I thought the only difference was the bushing material. It is certainly possible to stick new bronze bushings in there as I had one for a very short while that had been done prior to my buying it. I get the impression that this does need doing as these bearings can apparently seize as the plastic material breaks down with age. All of the fittings and fixtures on the TD-124 aside from the E50 motor are metric so parts such as bushings tend to be available.

 

[mjkelshaw]

If you're into the 'engineering' aspects of turntable design I'm sure that you will appreciate your '124'.
The removal of the two 'platters' should be straight forward, in that they just 'lift off', there is no means of 'retention'.
The main platter is of course quite heavy, especially if it is one of the 'iron' ones, just make sure that you lift it 'vertically' until the 'spindle' is clear of the bearing housing.
When I purchased my TD124 II s/hand in the mid '70's, it still had most of the original packaging, which included a hard cardboard 'ring' which was positioned between the 'main' platter and the chassis, and presumably was there to separate the ball in the bottom of the spindle from the 'thrust pad' in the bottom of the bearing housing.
In the '70's, the official distributor 'Metrosound' was able to supply replacement belts, idler wheels and lubricants etc., which meant that I was able to replace the belt, idler wheel and re-lubricate it without too much effort.
Incidentally, my '124 has always been 'moved' between houses using the original packaging, including the 'ring', this included being 'shipped' to, across and back from Canada, and then later, to and from Holland and after that to the various locations in England that I worked in. This would suggest that providing that the spindle does not bear upon the thrust pad it will be safe to transport, and that makes it a more 'compact' package to transport.
Although there is much more useful 'unofficial' information available today - I just wish that the necessary replacement 'bits' were as easily available, and didn't make one feel that one was being 'held to ransom'.

Regards

Mike Kelshaw

 

[Dowser]

Thanks both - is there a ball bearing at the bottom of the main bearing (just so I know to check it remains there if I lift the whole thing out...rather than it getting stuck to end of spindle and me losing it )?

Richard

 

[Tony L]

Thanks both - is there a ball bearing at the bottom of the main bearing (just so I know to check it remains there if I lift the whole thing out...rather than it getting stuck to end of spindle and me losing it )?

The ball bearing is captive on the end of the shaft held there by a thin metal spring washer thingy, it won't fall off.

 

[Dowser]

Many thanks Tony.

 

[torstoi]

Oh, yes HK ST8 still in my office system - thread here - I have a rebuilt Lenco L75 with AS-212 arm to try in office system too...but I simply love the looks of the Harmon Kardon

I'm over the stupidity purchase thing now, and looking forward to rebuilding and hearing this. Will it knock my modified LP12 off it's wall shelf?

Thanks, Richard

Hi Richard,

I think it will be hard to knock your LP12 off, I don't say this bc I'm such an LP12 fan, as I think I'm not..but rather bc I think your LP12 has a few specs that make it quite hard to knock it off simply.
Within the classic range of things, that is.

We did the same things in the past with the Sole, and that is why I think it's not too easy,,,second part being your Mission arm I really like..

I'm curious how this turns out, I would be happy if you managed to get above the LP12 by your efforts with the TD124.

Not knowledge, but plain guess is telling me that'll be hard bc of your version of the Sondek,,,you did it too good, perhaps..

We happen to do very similar, but not exactly the same things now & it's a shame Swizz is so far.
You got the HK tangential, I got a Techy SL10 tangential to explore into direct a bit..

You got the Lenco, I have started off a Lenco project..

Now you got this absolute beauty & I landed some, well in common sense maybe the absolute opposite, but I like it a lot.
Looks a bit as if Citroen would have created a deck in the 80s.
I'll tell more once it has landed..

If a bit of crosstalk is allowed...Did you compare this HK with Rabco arm to some Techy like SL10 for instance..?
I take it the arm on the HK is a bit more competent than the tiny SL arm,
generally, how would you describe the sound and which system is on.
Does your LP12 totally destroy it or..how far are they apart in your view..?

Congrats again & good luck with the TD !

 

[Dowser]

Hi Torstoi

Too hard to compare HK ST8 with the Linn - I use a Roksan Corus blue on HK into MM stage of first Rega Mira in office (recently swapped to a project USB phono stage, not worse than Rega, probably different) and an Asaka into mckinnie headamp and Croft Micro MM phono stage at home. Different worlds really.

I have compared l75/as-212 with vintage DV Ruby Karat to LP12/774 and Asaka into same headamp - bass drive is addictive with Lenco, but imaging is stunning with the Linn. But it is all very subjective - I could easily live with either...but where's the fun in that

I am very interested to see where the Thorens fits in here - both it and a Garrard are on my hear before I die list. But at end of day investment also plays a part - the Thorens has cost me more than twice what my LP12 cost me, the Lenco cost me 10 times less than the Linn. I honestly don't remember cost of HK, but it came with the DV and another VdH LO MC cartridge.

My assumption is I can do a photo documented DIY rebuild of the 124 and resell if necessary without losing anything. The likely reality is I have another turntable in my collection that I have zero space for...to add to my other CDPs, tuners and amps in my collection. Yee-ha!

Collection tomorrow- a drive to Basel outskirts, I'm hoping to leave office early enough to avoid the poxy traffic that occurs a few kms outside city on autobahn.

Anyone got a 124 arm board that want to sell me - any condition, just to allow me to listen to it assuming seller has actually serviced it ok and I am good to go? Otherwise I will be forced to fabricate something out of MDF initially I have my old modded RB250 and a Linn Basik sitting around...and a Benz Micro Gold I picked up recently

Richard

 

[Tony L]

You'll need a plinth as well as an arm board! I'd approach it as a long-term project and I very much doubt that it is anything even close to having been serviced. I'm about five years in with mine and it's still revealing its secrets!

PS Also remember if it has the better sounding iron platter it will attract MC carts to some degree (0.5g in the case of a DL-103), i.e. approach with caution if you have a fancy modern MC with really powerful neodymium magnets etc.

 

[awl]

I may be able to help out with an armboard, I think I have a couple spare. I'm just heading out now, so will have a look tomorrow. Feel free to send a pm to remind me...

Andrew

 

[Dowser]

Understood Tony - if it was unrestored first thing I'd do was re-oil motor and various bearings, refresh belts and listen to it. I suspect that is all seller has done (as evidenced by motor rivets in situ, and fact he can't of removed and re-hot-oiled main bearing if it is plastic), a basic spit and polish.

And I do not consider the lack of a plinth to stop me from bolting an arm to it and listening - I have a spare Lenco plinth here, and lots of empty wine bottles if push comes to shove I am hoping my shure manual scales can be used to estimate TF requirements - by comparing difference with outer platter on and off if necessary from a actual VTA perspective.

I did same with my Lenco - admittedly I then shoved it in my cellar for another 2 years afterwards...but that was with stock Lenco arm!

 

[Dowser]

I may be able to help out with an armboard, I think I have a couple spare. I'm just heading out now, so will have a look tomorrow. Feel free to send a pm to remind me...

Andrew

Cheers Andrew - consider it done and enjoy your evening

 

[Tony L]

And I do not consider the lack of a plinth to stop me from bolting an arm to it and listening - I have a spare Lenco plinth here, and lots of empty wine bottles if push comes to shove I am hoping my shure manual scales can be used to estimate TF requirements - by comparing difference with outer platter on and off if necessary from a actual VTA perspective.

Depending on the length and straightness of the threaded rods that hold the height adjuster thumb-wheels you may even be able to run it standing on them alone, but I'd be reluctant to form any opinion. The trouble with TD-124s is they can sound anywhere between a seriously good turntable and a washing machine, i.e. if it sounds like crap (gutless, out of tune, noisy etc), which it probably will, don't assume that's all it can do!

As the iron platter exists some 6 or so mm beneath the record surface it is important to measure the tracking weight at that height. By pure fluke my cheapo eBay electronic scales are almost exactly 6mm high, so I measured mine with the upper platter off.

PS My 124 is playing some Art Pepper as I'm typing this and it is really sounding good, so definitely stick with it!