Old Potterton boiler down. Advice etc. welcomed.

[twotone]

Don't they check whether it's condensing properly when they service it?

No the boiler condenses when the heating thermostat on the boiler is set to 54 degrees C which is too cold for most people or at least the surface temp of their rads is too cold so engineers set the boiler stat higher plus there's other things available to make the boiler more efficient like smart controls especially OT products (Open Therm) and smart TRVs, outside weather sensors, weather compensation and etc.

An A rated boiler with smart controls can achieve efficiencies of around 97% but even out of the box with no controls an A rated boiler is about 92% efficient and with a mean efficiency of around 83%.

BTW I don't know of any boiler with a modulation better than 1% think Vokera's new Unica Max combi has a modulation ratio of up to 1:8

https://www.vokera.co.uk/homeowners/boilers/unica-max-c/

Personally I run my boiler flow temp at 80 degree cause we like the house hot but if you have really good insulation in the property then you can run the boiler flow much lower or turn the boiler off so that you don't need to spend money heating a hot house.

 

[Richard Lines]

Don't they check whether it's condensing properly when they service it?

There are reports of many condensing boilers nor being operated correctly so one has to wonder about the servicing. I cannot claim to be an expert in the subject of boiler servicing but the principal aim is to ensure that the boiler is working efficiently in terms of emissions but this has nothing to do with whether it operates in the condensing mode.

I would have to go back to around 1996 since I was in a house with an "old' gas boiler. We had a condensing LPG boiler installed in 2001 and whilst I wasn't here every year when it was serviced I can't recall anything specific being done by way off checking it operating in condensing mode - it was operating in that mode continuously from the day it was installed until it failed.

Somebody out there must have access go a modern condensing boiler service schedule????

Regards

Richard

 

[twotone]

There are reports of many condensing boilers nor being operated correctly so one has to wonder about the servicing. I cannot claim to be an expert in the subject of boiler servicing but the principal aim is to ensure that the boiler is working efficiently in terms of emissions but this has nothing to do with whether it operates in the condensing mode.

I would have to go back to around 1996 since I was in a house with an "old' gas boiler. We had a condensing LPG boiler installed in 2001 and whilst I wasn't here every year when it was serviced I can't recall anything specific being done by way off checking it operating in condensing mode - it was operating in that mode continuously from the day it was installed until it failed.

Somebody out there must have access go a modern condensing boiler service schedule????

Regards

Richard

The punter in the house operates the boiler per whatever he wants it's nothing to do with servicing same as you buy a car or a hifi or a TV.

The boilers are serviced per the manufacturer's instruction every boiler and every boiler model is different so servicing is different for every boiler and efficiency has nothing to do with servicing.

You service the boiler with whatever the service is described in the boiler manual.

 

[Mike Reed]

however those old Netaheat boiler's back panels can rot and products can be blown into the room.
Personally at it's age I'd replace it if I were you, I presume that it's your own boiler and not in a rental property?

Thanks for the previous offer, Tony. It's Sod's law that whereas it operated perfectly yesterday, I turned it on later this afternoon and it wouldn't ignite again. Took the bottom panel off and gave the 'Electronic Ignition generator' (a Plessey one) a couple of taps, as did the plumber on Monday, and it fired up (and still going).

Whereas previously there wasn't a pilot light, there is now. I really does seem to be sth in that generator box, so I hope I can repeat the process if it goes wrong again; just to buy a little time, really, as the plumber won't be available for a few weeks at best (he's got 2 weeks left of his current employment and then he's freelance in conjunction with my reg. plumber and his young man).

Yes, it's my own 3 bed house. My other Netaheat (a smaller one) was in a house I bought in '96 and the back rotted away (as you mentioned). No idea of the age of mine (no obv. serial numbers etc. but it's a Netaheat 10-16 mark 11 F. Because of its size c/f my earlier one, I'd guess at eighties. I've checked Sedbuk and other Google entries but can only find that Netaheats came out in '75.

Thanks for your advice re. replacing, which is almost certainly what I'll be doing, but pref. not now !!!

 

[Mike Reed]

We don't bother with an annual service anymore, we just wait until it breaks.

I gather, and have recently been told, that all boiler manufacturers now issue guarantees based upon regular annual servicing. Your Worcester Bosch seems to operate differently. At £60 a throw, annual servicing mounts up. Maybe you have their version of an insurance scheme, but I'd be interested to know the rough details before I commit. I'm getting mixed messages about Worcester Bosch.

If you pay good money for an insurance scheme, and any boiler owner can take one up, it could almost be a swings and roundabouts situation, to my mind.

 

[Aethelist]

Initially we had cover direct through Worcester but after the initial warranty period they farmed us out to Domestic and General. A very expensive option.

A British Gas Service contract would cost £25/month £300 /PA? And that's if they'd cover it at all being so old. Some don't. Worcester do. Even after 16 years.

Modern boilers don't actually need an annual service. Totally cost ineffective. They don't clean burners and whatnot anymore they just plug a laptop in and adjust parameters.

So we now have it serviced when it needs repairing, roughly every 3 years. As I said earlier, they came the next day and got us up and running after one phone call. Was the same engineer who replaced the fan assembly 3 years prior. Testament to his work that the boiler was still running at exactly the same efficiency after the last time he serviced it.

 

[twotone]

Boilers do need servicing.

Vokera traps block and so do Worcesters and both boilers gas valves drift so they need checked and adjusted if required but even now with newer variants you can't adjust the gas valve ie Ideal won't allow you to adjust the gas valve so you have to contact them if the boilers under warranty and if it isn't you have to change the gas valve after contacting them.

The manufacturer's warranties say you have to have the boiler's serviced or they'll void the warranty and some do and some don't but it's not legally enforceable however anyone spending a grand on a boiler who doesn't have it serviced annually is frankly, stupid!

I have been servicing some customers boilers since install and some of those boilers were installed 15 years ago and those customers can lift the phone and get next day or same day service.

I mean who buys a £40k motor and say's 'feck it' I'm not paying £300 every year to make sure my investment is okay?

 

[Ellenor]

So it does seem to be a dry joint on the board. New boards are expensive now for what they are. I’d get the dry joints soldered up to get you through to spring. I’d have done that if I’d called round, would pretty much guarantee me the boiler change job in my experience.

As for control systems, you can’t beat weather compensation in my view and Opentherm is superb when set up correctly. Get more than one price but the cheapest price isn’t always the one to go for.

 

[Mike Reed]

So it does seem to be a dry joint on the board.

Oddly, it looks as though the box (board) is easily removable and has clips on electrical contacts. Despite my total absence of boiler nous, it is tempting to have a look. My dear Taiwanese wife, who started working life in a factory soldering components onto pcbs and the like, said 'I can do that'! Her eyesight is 20/20 and has much younger hands than me. We'll see ( I've got a small soldering iron etc. but no measuring/continuity instrument so it'd need to be visible !)

Thanks for the (supposed) confirmation of what the young plumber thought. I hate mysteries and at least the culprit has been narrowed down