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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+9)?

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MVV said:
Well I never! who'd have thought that the last minute Spanish objection could be overcome? Must be a blooming rollercoaster for our negotiators. Mind you I wouldn't want to be in their trousers, every objection they put up we robustly overcome.
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Yeah, the Gibraltar episode always looked stage-managed. A nice bit of drama to show how everyone involved fought their corners before reaching a sensible compromise.
 
This is why I worry the EU might still have more to give, by arrangement: not much, but just enough for the Tory rebels to save face. A symbolic concession is usually enough to do it no matter how militant the preceding bluster.
 
hammond. today.

The deal on offer was the "best way of Britain leaving the EU with the minimum negative impact on the economy," he said.

The chancellor said the deal was ***better than remaining in the EU*** because it honoured the referendum result and offered "the best compromise possible... satisfying both sides" of the Brexit argument."

i wonder if the guy is aware of the term "mutually exclusive"?

idiot.
 
Seanm said:
This is why I worry the EU might still have more to give, by arrangement: not much, but just enough for the Tory rebels to save face. A symbolic concession is usually enough to do it no matter how militant the preceding bluster.
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Bloody stupid if they haven't. May's steely resolve to fight on, alone, for the national interest will be tested to the limit. They might think this is our Dunkirk but it will be their D Day!
 
HairyHaggis said:
hammond. today.

The deal on offer was the "best way of Britain leaving the EU with the minimum negative impact on the economy," he said.

The chancellor said the deal was ***better than remaining in the EU*** because it honoured the referendum result and offered "the best compromise possible... satisfying both sides" of the Brexit argument."

i wonder if the guy is aware of the term "mutually exclusive"?

idiot.
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The two statements are consistent as long as one considers respecting the referendum result a good in itself. He's lying about May's deal minimising the economic impact though and I bet the Treasury's own analysis will show that (it certainly ought to). And "satisfying both sides" is impossible, of course.
 
Mullardman said:
After you tell me where you get your fantasies about Labour's plans. Labour's manifesto is clear. A moderate democratic socialist agenda. Your portrayal as Labour as some sort of anti-democratic proto authoritarian 'one party state' mission is more applicable to the present right.
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I don't have a fight with you on the present Tory lot.

Mullardman said:
And another thing. If the EU is really the neo-con conspiracy you claim it to be, why are our current right wing neo con politicians so keen to leave it?
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In fairness, the majority of Westminster (75-80%?), including the PM, most of the cabinet, the majority of Tory MPs, almost all Labour MPs and all of the others are pro-EU. The unelected non-minister head of Brexit, Olly Robbins, has EU written through his centre like a stick of Brighton Rock. All of Whitehall, which has anyway been purged of pretty much anything but young, inherently eunatic civil servants and is anyway virtually an organ of the EC, is virulently pro-EU and anti-Brexit. The BoE, and the vast majority of the establishment, by which I mean the HoL and numbers of retired but well-connected and quietly very influential ex-PMs (Blair, Major), diplomats, bankers and industrialists are anti-Brexit. Half of the news media is anti-Brexit, and the other half are gradually being wittled away. Even the loathed DM has undergone a pro-EU coup with the appointment of Geordie Grieg. There are very few of these 'right-wing neo-cons' that you speak of, and of those who want to leave there are undoubtedly manifold reasons for wanting to do so, some of which no doubt revolve closely around self-interest, others which are principled and probably wrong, and others which are principled and probably right.

I think that this country is in the final stages of a highly organised, deep and broad establishment coup against the principles of democratic sovereignty. Democracy is being quietly crucified by the élite. I find it very disconcerting that I am more aligned with Jeremy Corbyn, with whom I am ideologically and instinctively completely at odds, than I am with my own political hinterland, on the matter of the EU.
 
We find out on 27 Nov whether the UK can revoke article 50 and stay on current terms or whether rejoining means renegotiating. That should interesting....
 
following hard on the heels of hammonds logical inconsistencies, we have boris "2-bridges" johnson saying that the UK had an "absolute duty to get this right". a bit like the original elizabethan plantations that caused the problem in the first place then? and his transparent appeal to van morrison must have had the poor man choking on his whiskey.
 
Must be such a pisser for Blojo to realise he backed the wrong horse and in winning has lost it all. Not only that, May has pinched the sacred Churchill trousers and has started strutting about in them!
 
indeed. i do think that come the time, when the chips are down, you'll see tories and dup et al troop obediently through the lobbies in support of the establishment (aka tory govt). they won't risk a ge as it risks their seats which puts at risk their place at the trough. i'll be surprised if anything different ensues.
 
HairyHaggis said:
indeed. i do think that come the time, when the chips are down, you'll see tories and dup et al troop obediently through the lobbies in support of the establishment (aka tory govt). they won't risk a ge as it risks their seats which puts at risk their place at the trough. i'll be surprised if anything different ensues.
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No, no, no, rest assured Labour have a roadmap and decision tree.
 
HairyHaggis said:
indeed. i do think that come the time, when the chips are down, you'll see tories and dup et al troop obediently through the lobbies in support of the establishment (aka tory govt). they won't risk a ge as it risks their seats which puts at risk their place at the trough. i'll be surprised if anything different ensues.
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Because of all the trough feeding and what have you it's easy to forget that the DUP are genuine fanatics: the union is really, really important to them, even more important than the good feels of being needed by the government. If they calculate that Corbyn is less of a threat to the union than May they'll support him, strange as it may seem. And Labour's stated policy is less of a threat to the union than May's so...

Theresa May’s Brexit deal a greater threat than Jeremy Corbyn, says DUP leader Arlene Foster
 
eternumviti said:
I don't have a fight with you on the present Tory lot.



In fairness, the majority of Westminster (75-80%?), including the PM, most of the cabinet, the majority of Tory MPs, almost all Labour MPs and all of the others are pro-EU. The unelected non-minister head of Brexit, Olly Robbins, has EU written through his centre like a stick of Brighton Rock. All of Whitehall, which has anyway been purged of pretty much anything but young, inherently eunatic civil servants and is anyway virtually an organ of the EC, is virulently pro-EU and anti-Brexit. The BoE, and the vast majority of the establishment, by which I mean the HoL and numbers of retired but well-connected and quietly very influential ex-PMs (Blair, Major), diplomats, bankers and industrialists are anti-Brexit. Half of the news media is anti-Brexit, and the other half are gradually being wittled away. Even the loathed DM has undergone a pro-EU coup with the appointment of Geordie Grieg. There are very few of these 'right-wing neo-cons' that you speak of, and of those who want to leave there are undoubtedly manifold reasons for wanting to do so, some of which no doubt revolve closely around self-interest, others which are principled and probably wrong, and others which are principled and probably right.

I think that this country is in the final stages of a highly organised, deep and broad establishment coup against the principles of democratic sovereignty. Democracy is being quietly crucified by the élite. I find it very disconcerting that I am more aligned with Jeremy Corbyn, with whom I am ideologically and instinctively completely at odds, than I am with my own political hinterland, on the matter of the EU.
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Oh, what to do...
 
Seanm said:
Because of all the trough feeding and what have you it's easy to forget that the DUP are genuine fanatics: the union is really, really important to them, even more important than the good feels of being needed by the government. If they calculate that Corbyn is less of a threat to the union than May they'll support him, strange as it may seem. And Labour's stated policy is less of a threat to the union than May's so...

Theresa May’s Brexit deal a greater threat than Jeremy Corbyn, says DUP leader Arlene Foster
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that's quite a statement by the lovley arlene! but don't you think it's more for mrs may's consumption, to "assist" her in the coming negotiations, to help her focus on the really "important things", rather than an actual threat to dump the tories and have them face the country? again?
 
Chancellor Merkel has signalled the fleet-
Gibraltar ist kaputt!
t70bv8.jpg


Some are having trouble taking it in.
 
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