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Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+5)?

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donald tusk today: ""Politicians come and go," he said. "But the problems they have created for the people remain. The mess caused by Brexit is the biggest problem in the history of EU-UK relations. And it is still very far from being solved.""

said with a clearly heavy heart and fed-up expression. we all know who he is referring to. i for one, continue to wonder why we persist in electing them...
 
Interesting take by a political commentator, somewhat more eloquent (and brighter) than I.

Today has been a pretty tumultuous day for the Tory party, but I think contrary to the general impression, this has actually been a blinding win for May and Dominic Grieve.

A few months ago we were fairly up in the air, progressing with the Brexit bill which would set the terms for negotiating authority. Grieve, a serious details-man, raised an amendment which would have necessitated a return to parliament for a "meaningful vote" on whatever it was Theresa May came back with. Soubry et al joined in and it was plastered all over the pro-Brexit press. Any parliamentary vote was tantamount to treason. The leading Brexiters struck out and emphasised how vital it was that the government not have its hands bound.

With minutes to spare, Grieve and others had a private meeting with May just before the final vote, and under some "personal assurances", suddenly backed down, setting in statute the government's ability to return to parliament with a take-it-or-leave-it deal. This was a great "humiliation" for the remain camp, etc.

What this has meant, though, is power has effectively now been placed squarely in May's lap. The consequences of that weren't entirely clear, but it looks as though she co-ordinated a plan without consulting DExEU or leaving thinking time (considerable for Davis). That, plus the whole taxi insult, drove him over the edge into resigning, followed by Boris (who seemingly wasn't brave enough to jump first).

Now, Boris and Davis have gone and Gove has been forced to seemingly stick by May. The ERG are furious, but thanks to their own push for no meaningful vote, they can do absolutely nothing about it other than try and oust May. They can start the election, but it looks highly unlikely that the Tories will abandon May, meaning it would be a pointless exercise.

Parliament has a strong majority against "No Deal", which means they will almost certainly accept whatever May gets, even if they vote with their noses held, because most MPs recognise the consequences of a no-deal exit would be pretty awful.

The Tories now can't oust May, they're highly unlikely to want to risk Corbyn so they can't try and force an election, and they're stuck with whatever May comes back with - thanks to a policy they themselves insisted on. May can now use that to negotiate as she wishes, and possibly force a compromise Brexit.

Unless I'm mistaken, it's checkmate.
That is sort of how I see it, although I don't imagine she's driving, and obviously she's still massively constrained: but surely she's out-manouevred the hard Brexiters? They can't see her off themselves and they won't vote with Corbyn against the government. What am I missing?
 
Seaniepops, I don't think you are missing owt. Very nice writing, 'goodbye you w*****s, thanks for popping in'.
 
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That is sort of how I see it, although I don't imagine she's driving, and obviously she's still massively constrained: but surely she's out-manouevred the hard Brexiters? They can't see her off themselves and they won't vote with Corbyn against the government. What am I missing?
Not much, I suspect.
 
Interesting take by a political commentator, somewhat more eloquent (and brighter) than I.

I was going to post something on slithy Goves and the Johnsonwock whiffling through the tulgey wood; but actually, there is a far finer commentary by Lewis Carroll:


Cheshire Puss,’ May began, rather timidly, as she did not at all know whether it would like the name: however, it only grinned a little wider. ‘Come, it’s pleased so far,’ thought Theresa, and she went on. ‘Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?’

‘That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,’ said the Cat.

‘I don’t much care where—’ said Theresa.

‘Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,’ said the Cat.

‘—so long as I get somewhere,’ Theresa added as an explanation.

‘Oh, you’re sure to do that,’ said the Cat, ‘if you only walk long enough.’
 
The situation was summed up rather well by Matthew Parris and others on Newsnight I felt in that really there are now really just two options: a) a hard ‘crash-out’ Brexit as desired by the real fringe extremists such as Farage, Rees-Mogg, Davis etc (and for that matter Hoey, Mann, Corbyn etc) that has no real wider support, and b) a “soft-Brexit” that will keep paid EU access to some degree but remove us from EU decision making and is clearly less good than remaining in the EU as we were pre-Brexit vote. This is where both the Tories and Labour find themselves trapped and useless. Both options are just crap, and it really needs someone with a spine to point that out and sell remaining to the electorate.
 
"The foreign secretary should never have had the opportunity to resign. He should have been sacked months ago as a national embarrassment," says Ian Blackford, responding to the news that Boris Johnson has resigned.
 
Cameron starts this sorry mess to defeat his anti-Europe brigade which starts a civil war inside the party. We then end up on shitty terms and conditions with a fraction of what we enjoyed and no influence left inside the world’s biggest free trade zone? It’s that or the self destruct button of sudden departure with no exit preparation! This is what survival of the Tory Party has brought Britain to- lose/lose. It’s insane.
 
Cameron starts this sorry mess to defeat his anti-Europe brigade which starts a civil war inside the party. We then end up on shitty terms and conditions with a fraction of what we enjoyed and no influence left inside the world’s biggest free trade zone? It’s that or the self destruct button of sudden departure with no exit preparation! This is what survival of the Tory Party has brought Britain to- lose/lose. It’s insane.
Actually, I don't like this but agree it represents - unfortunately - the actualite.
 
She wants England in the Word Cup Final, so she can go to Moscow, canoodle with the squad and deflect that lots of Tory MPs dislike her.

Ooops I forgot. There is a bit of a problem with this. May acts like Putin is Son of Satan and seems to think the Russians are trying to kills off UK citizens with Novichock.

Jack

Well the jury's out on the blame for the Novichock, but I still think the Putin is the son of somebody very nasty. Let her go to Moscow. We might get lucky..

Meanwhile Labour seems to think it is stable enough to call the government unstable.[/QUOTE

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That is sort of how I see it, although I don't imagine she's driving, and obviously she's still massively constrained: but surely she's out-manouevred the hard Brexiters? They can't see her off themselves and they won't vote with Corbyn against the government. What am I missing?

You are missing the interview with JRM on C4 news yesterday where JRM said that his ERG bloc of MPs would vote with Labour to defeat the Government.
 
...a hard ‘crash-out’ Brexit as desired by the real fringe extremists such as Farage, Rees-Mogg, Davis etc (and for that matter Hoey, Mann, Corbyn etc) that has no real wider support...

Sadly a large number of people would still be happy to see this, and can’t understand why it hasn’t happened already.
 
The situation was summed up rather well by Matthew Parris and others on Newsnight I felt in that really there are now really just two options: a) a hard ‘crash-out’ Brexit as desired by the real fringe extremists such as Farage, Rees-Mogg, Davis etc (and for that matter Hoey, Mann, Corbyn etc) that has no real wider support, and b) a “soft-Brexit” that will keep paid EU access to some degree but remove us from EU decision making and is clearly less good than remaining in the EU as we were pre-Brexit vote. This is where both the Tories and Labour find themselves trapped and useless. Both options are just crap, and it really needs someone with a spine to point that out and sell remaining to the electorate.

It's (very) nicely put here https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...to-huge-trouble-to-humiliate-itself-1.3558995

"When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out, neither on its own nor part of something larger.

Davis and Johnson know this is the reality they helped to create. They hadn’t the stomach either to face it or to publish a credible alternative. That is because the only alternatives to a mortifying Brexit are stark. One is to be honest and admit that the whole project has already failed and must be stopped before it is too late."
 
It's (very) nicely put here https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...to-huge-trouble-to-humiliate-itself-1.3558995

"When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out, neither on its own nor part of something larger.

Davis and Johnson know this is the reality they helped to create. They hadn’t the stomach either to face it or to publish a credible alternative. That is because the only alternatives to a mortifying Brexit are stark. One is to be honest and admit that the whole project has already failed and must be stopped before it is too late."
Great article, as Burns had it
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

Has any country ever gone into international treaty negotiations hoping to emerge with a status greatly inferior to the one it already enjoys? What do we want? National humiliation. When do we want it? Now.
 
Political Brexiteers and Remainers need to listen to this BBC Radio Briefing Room on the various options for 'soft Brexit'.

Listening to them, they appear to have as little understanding of the EEA, EFTA etc as they do of the EU.

As usual now, it seems, the UK wishes to leave/not join institutions we were the lead developers of because we thought it in our interest.

Stephen
 
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