Oh Britain, what have you done (part ∞+23)?

[stephen bennett]

`

It doesn’t matter if it’s a shit idea, the referendum happened and we all know the result. How the negotiations were handled then became vital.

Unless you believe the EU is impossible to negotiate with, it is clear the UK did not handle the negotiations well and that is the problem.

Given her red lines, May actually did a good job. Free customs’ union 4eva!

The problem is Brexit itself. Once we acknowledge that it’s going to be bad for us in almost every way and that we can't achieve the unachievable as we were promised by the Leave campaign ('all the advantages with none of the costs') we can leave tomorrow if we want.

We’ll find out how bad it’ll be in 3 months or so.

Stephen

 

[stephen bennett]

As i have stated previously, the comment was made by an MEP referring to Mays deal during the 2 part program following Verhofstadt.
Colony:
1.
a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.

So you also think it’s not an apt or suitable description of our membership of the EU either?

Excellent.

Stephen

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Colony:
1.
a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country and occupied by settlers from that country.

I think that definition might need a little work in light of the globalisation trends of the last couple of generations.

First, find me a country that isn't a) at least partially under the control of another country and b) has no immigrants from that other country.

And on the latter point, 'occupied by settlers' is not the same as 'contains immigrants or short-term migrants from'.

 

[TheDecameron]

It ain’t no colony, it’s a prison camp and there’s more punishment beatings coming cos we stood up to them. Cue Farage bare arsing the European Parliament while whistling the theme tune to The Great Escape again. The people posting this delusional guff are living inside their own personal Carry On film.

 

[stevec67]

`
We’ll find out how bad it’ll be in 3 months or so.

We will, *IF* it's allowed to happen. If parliament block it or if the senior members of the Civil Service (otherwise known as The Grownups) say "Listen you lot, if you do this then it's going to be bloody chaos, so FFS hang fire" then we might be on for another extension. Again. Given that another week has gone by and we have seen NOT ONE positive decision in the three years to date, this is looking increasingly likely.

Don't agree? Name me one thing that has been decided, and that we are working towards. One thing.

 

[stephen bennett]

Listening to the Apollo 11 landing team guiding Armstrong and Aldrin down to the moon made me wonder—what turned their generation into the small-minded racists you see voting for Johnson and Trump?

As Gene Krantz said ('flight'), Apollo brought together a USA divided by a war. It's usually wars that do that, but Apollo was a true 'swords to ploughshares' programme.

Stephen

 

[stephen bennett]

We will, *IF* it's allowed to happen. If parliament block it or if the senior members of the Civil Service (otherwise known as The Grownups) say "Listen you lot, if you do this then it's going to be bloody chaos, so FFS hang fire" then we might be on for another extension. Again. Given that another week has gone by and we have seen NOT ONE positive decision in the three years to date, this is looking increasingly likely.

Don't agree? Name me one thing that has been decided, and that we are working towards. One thing.

Well, to be fair, Johnson isn't in post yet. He'll ramp up no deal when he is, so that's one thing I guess.

Parliament can't block anything. Johnson can just let it run out. If he brings no legislation or allows any to be brought, he's home free. The CS have to do what Johnson says.

This is why it's ludicrous to say that in the UK we 'vote for a part not a leader'. The UK PM has a lot of power and this should not be passed on by a few members.

Stephen

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Listening to the Apollo 11 landing team guiding Armstrong and Aldrin down to the moon made me wonder—what turned their generation into the small-minded racists you see voting for Johnson and Trump?

As Gene Krantz said ('flight'), Apollo brought together a USA divided by a war. It's usually wars that do that, but Apollo was a true 'swords to ploughshares' programme.

Stephen

Yes, absolutely.

We could, given the right leadership, do something similar for climate change and major rollout of fusion tech. We won't, because double-digit IQs in positions of power and influence.

 

[sean99]

The problem with Apollo - it didn't make Wall St / City of London rich. Agree also that both the USA and UK are currently governed by psychopaths and idiots. Right wingers both sides of the Atlantic are a toxic mix of Dunning Kruger meets Greed is Good.

 

[eternumviti]

Two things from this: firstly, if this happens, it will render the entire EU and UK hugely vulnerable to the rapacious instincts of the USA, China and Russia. So be careful what you wish for.

Secondly, do you not think that maybe the UK coming to the table with a) not even the first ****ing clue what it wanted and b) not just with a list of things it didn't want (aka 'red lines') might have contributed to the problem? How do you negotiate in good faith with a party which knows what it doesn't want, but not what it does? To this observer, the EU has behaved like a grown up, dealing with a wilful and petulant child. We don't deserve the respect and patience we have been afforded, yet you claim they are the ones on the ideological high horse, unwilling to talk shop? I'm sorry, EV, but for goodness sake, try as I might, I really can't see it how you see it.

I didn't wish for this. Were it not for EU ideological dogma, none of this need have happened, from which follows, of course, that there was no way it wasn't going to happen.

I agree with you that the UK has been hopeless, and least from the political end. May was beyond appalling.The perfidy once the the domain of Albion seems to have been exercised most effectively by the EC, and its compatriots in the UK Civil Service.

The WA constitutes a series of traps, designed to either prevent brexit, or to disable it and render the UK a vassal. There's really no other way of seeing it.

 

[stevec67]

Well, to be fair, Johnson isn't in post yet. He'll ramp up no deal when he is, so that's one thing I guess.

But that's my point entirely. Allowing "no deal" to happen isn't doing anything. That's like fixing your roof by allowing the water to come in until the walls fall down and you need to rebuild the entire house. If you are going to allow no deal to happen, or there is a substantial possibility that it will, then "doing something" would be actually having a plan in place to deal with the chaos at the ports. We haven't got any such plan, have we?

 

[Colin Barron]

Two things from this: firstly, if this happens, it will render the entire EU and UK hugely vulnerable to the rapacious instincts of the USA, China and Russia. So be careful what you wish for.

Secondly, do you not think that maybe the UK coming to the table with a) not even the first ****ing clue what it wanted and b) not just with a list of things it didn't want (aka 'red lines') might have contributed to the problem? How do you negotiate in good faith with a party which knows what it doesn't want, but not what it does? To this observer, the EU has behaved like a grown up, dealing with a wilful and petulant child. We don't deserve the respect and patience we have been afforded, yet you claim they are the ones on the ideological high horse, unwilling to talk shop? I'm sorry, EV, but for goodness sake, try as I might, I really can't see it how you see it.

The impression i got from the Verhofstadt (2 part) documentaries was that if no agreement could be reached the EU would be ok and only the UK would suffer. This is nonsense, if trading is interupted the chain of events will be world wide.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I didn't wish for this. Were it not for EU ideological dogma, none of this need have happened, from which follows, of course, that there was no way it wasn't going to happen.

I agree with you that the UK has been hopeless, and least from the political end. May was beyond appalling.The perfidy once the the domain of Albion seems to have been exercised most effectively by the EC, and its compatriots in the UK Civil Service.

The WA constitutes a series of traps, designed to either prevent brexit, or to disable it and render the UK a vassal. There's really no other way of seeing it.

I'm sorry, EV, but this is mostly bluster. The 'EU ideological dogma' you speak of seems to me to be mostly 'UK political spin to deflect the blame elsewhere'. For two generations, UK politicians have been content to take the credit in the good times, and blame the EU when things go wrong. That, above all else, is why we are where we are now. The general voting public has little to no idea of the 'EU ideological dogma' you allude to. The most persistent ideological dogma is the belief that the UK is capable of greatness on its own, and leaving the EU will return us to the heyday of the Empire.

 

[stevec67]

I didn't wish for this. Were it not for EU ideological dogma, none of this need have happened, from which follows, of course, that there was no way it wasn't going to happen.
.

Here we go again. It's not "EU ideological dogma" it's the rules that we bloody wrote. We then decide that we need a special deal, outside the rules. We want free movement of what we want but to stop that which we don't. We want the benefits and not the costs. Well, sorry but no. That's not ideological dogma, that's following your principles, the principles on which you are founded.

 

[stephen bennett]

I didn't wish for this. Were it not for EU ideological dogma, none of this need have happened, from which follows, of course, that there was no way it wasn't going to happen.

The WA constitutes a series of traps, designed to either prevent brexit, or to disable it and render the UK a vassal. There's really no other way of seeing it.

What you call 'ideological dogma' is just the EU protecting itself.

I suspect you'd also call the UK wanting NI to remain part of the UK as 'ideological dogma' if you were on the other side of the argument. I mean, if only the UK would only get over this unreasonable ideological position of a 'united kingdom' we could sort Brexit out easily.

May's WA is the best we could get with the UK red lines. You can't see it because of your blind hatred for the EU institutions.

In that, you are just like the ERG and the Brexit company.

Stephen

 

[TheDecameron]

...von der Leyden will send her wolf packs into the North Atlantic to sink any British merchantmen they find carrying much needed cargoes of chloro-chicken to the starving masses on Brexit Island. Bloodied but unbowed, we’ll stand against this Franco-German hegemony. Admiral Dönitz was unavailable for comment.

 

[stephen bennett]

Here we go again. It's not "EU ideological dogma" it's the rules that we bloody wrote. We then decide that we need a special deal, outside the rules. We want free movement of what we want but to stop that which we don't. We want the benefits and not the costs. Well, sorry but no. That's not ideological dogma, that's following your principles, the principles on which you are founded.

As Joe Hutch posted - 'moon on a stick'.

et, did you really think the EU would give up the things that make the EU work and beneficial for its members just for little old us? Did you buy the Leave vote rhetoric that the four freedoms were optional?

Did David Davis and Liam Fox impress you with their intellect?

I've asked before—what did you expect to happen when you cast your vote? Remain said voting leave would mean, effectively. a hard Brexit (though it wasn't called that then).

You must be over the moon (on a stick) as that that's what we're going to get in November.

Stephen

 

[stephen bennett]

...von der Leyden will send her wolf packs into the North Atlantic to sink any British merchantmen they find carrying much needed cargoes of cholo-chicken to the starving masses on Brexit Island. Bloodied but unbowed, we’ll stand against this Franco-German hegemony. Admiral Dönitz was unavailable for comment.

Dec, you do realise that this isn't irony for many leave voters?

Stephen

 

[gingermrkettle]

EU Ideological dogma: not thinking that JRM's money must have more rights than their citizens. How utterly insensitive of them.

 

[stevec67]

Bloodied but unbowed, we’ll stand against this Franco-German hegemony. Admiral Dönitz was unavailable for comment.

YESSSSS! HOUSE!

Shush, I only need "hegemony" and "oligarchy" and I'm up. Let him post again, he's on a roll and it's got to be a cert.

​

The USSR, for most of its existence and certainly for the long years under Stalin, was a totalitarian dictatorship and oligarchy .

...von der Leyden will send her wolf packs into the North Atlantic to sink any British merchantmen they find carrying much needed cargoes of cholo-chicken to the starving masses on Brexit Island. Bloodied but unbowed, we’ll stand against this Franco-German hegemony. Admiral Dönitz was unavailable for comment.

Get in! What do I win? Can I have a year's supply of canned American chicken?