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Next Labour Leader: Keir Starmer

Discussion in 'off topic' started by lordsummit, Apr 4, 2020.

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  1. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    My point was about who benefits by replacing one right winger with another one. That’s not to say that Starmer is a right winger, but given some of the policy announcements from Sunak, what has Starmer got that places him to the left of the Tories? If nothing, he’s just a change of face, and policy remains substantial unchanged.

    Really don’t understand what the bit about McCluskey has to do with anything I’ve said
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  2. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Yes, I’m questioning my own contributions too, not just the financial, but the time and support too. I’m desperate for some reassurance that I’m making a contribution to something worthwhile. I’m desperate for some reassurance that Labour will be substantially different to the Tories, but the early signs are not good. Not being Corbyn might win an internal leadership contest, but not being Boris is not going to be enough to start addressing what is wrong with this country
     
  3. ks.234

    ks.234 pfm Member

    Yes, that crossword is a bugger
     
  4. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    Some on here would be bereft;)
     
  5. Kirk

    Kirk pfm Member

    Isn't Len off soon? I guess he now some 'space' between jobs to safely release his pent-up frustration with Corbyn/the election/RLB/Keir/New New Labour/not getting a government job, etc. Storm in an Ivy tea cup.
     
  6. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    2022. I predict that his replacement will be equally supportive of the left.
     
  7. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    There are two distinct issues for me...

    1. As an organisation, the Labour Party seems almost irredeemably corrupt - riven with factionalism, riddled with cronyism, and filled with contempt for its black members. The leaked report was a stark illustration of this but there are other examples. For example, when Owen Smith challenged for the leadership, the NEC tried to prevent Corbyn's name from appearing on the ballot and, ultimately, the general secretary at the time (Blairite, Iain McNicol) went to court to stop Corbyn - wasting thousands of pounds worth of membership fees in a cynical factional stunt. It was an insult to the members who voted for Corbyn and campaigned for Labour, and a disgraceful attack on party democracy.

    2. What does the Labour Party stand for now? Starmer won the leadership by promising unity and continuity with the policies of the 2017 and 2019 manifestos - Corbynism "professionalised", if you like. Months later, it's hard to find any evidence he intends to do either. The counterargument is that he's deliberately playing his cards close to his chest to avoid controversy and rebuild Labour's image. Fair enough - I see the logic and I can see how these tactics will frustrate the Tories because Starmer gives them nothing to attack. Still, it's not something that can go on indefinitely and I have to wonder where Labour will end up policy-wise under Starmer. I'll be delighted if we go into the 2024 election with good polling, and something close to the 2017 manifesto.

    There was a decent discussion of the second point on Novara the other night:

    .

    Paul Mason is keeping the faith; I wish I shared his optimism.
     
  8. lordsummit

    lordsummit Moderator

    I have faith in Starmer, I think we also need to consider that the world will look very different in 2023/4 when the next election will be held. I believe Boris said he was going to repeal the fixed term parliament act. Guessing what policies will be relevant then is futile. He’s playing the right game, don’t give the Tories policies to steal or undermine. Making himself appear the voice of reason, stamping hard on anyone not playing the team game especially when it comes to the anti-semitism smear. He’s very cleverly taking the moral upper-hand, and making sure that the sticks used to beat the Labour Party with for the past five years are being laid to rest.
    McCluskey is an anachronism, if Starmer is pissing him off, he’s doing the right thing. He’s a voice of the past, and an unpleasant one at that.
    I’m not seeing your point about the Black members though, you illustrated that with Corbyn’s leadership contest with Owen Smith. I do think Labour needs to give BAME voices a bigger profile, they have some very strong ones, but it’s noticeable that the Conservative Party have more prominent BAME politicians. This is undoubtably something Starmer needs to address.
     
  9. Paul L

    Paul L coffee lounge for me

    The only thing I have seen Starmer and his cronies do so far is offer nothing and criticise everything. I really hoped he would be good to his word and hold the government to account without cheap political scoring. Really?...

    I’ve been appalled by labour and the media in equal measure in the past 6 months.
     
  10. thebigfredc

    thebigfredc pfm Member

    I hope you don't mind me using an NFL saying, but to those frustrated with Starmer, remember the game isn't won in the first quarter.

    So far at least he hasn't been knocked over by the tiniest of waves on Blackpool beach (Kinnock) or ridden a log flume ride wearing a baseball cap (Hague) or gone doolalee (IDS).
     
  11. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    We need to see him eating a bacon sandwich to ascertain whether or not he is Prime Ministerial material.
     
    Brian likes this.
  12. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    The leaked report has several instances of senior white party officials mocking black female MPs. Notably they have a good laugh about Diane Abbott crying in the toilet:

    https://novaramedia.com/2020/04/14/...marginalised-communities-against-one-another/

    [​IMG]

    Nauseating stuff from the "moderate" wing of the party. You're absolutely right about black Conservative MPs having a higher profile and exchanges like the above go some way towards explaining why. It would not surprise me if the Conservative Party has a black leader before Labour does, just as it has had two female leaders and Labour none.

    While we're on the subject, I might as well share this article about how happy senior party bureaucrats were when Labour did much better than expected in 2017:

    https://novaramedia.com/2020/04/12/...labours-senior-management-campaigned-to-lose/

    These are cynical, repulsive individuals and, sadly, my membership fees paid their salaries. I don't know know how much more money I want to throw into the cesspit.
     
  13. Woodface

    Woodface pfm Member

    All fair points.

    Some of them apply equally to the last leader.

    I am a little surprised how quickly certain people have ‘turned’ on Starmer but they probably never backed him anyway.

    The more I know about the Labour Party the less I like it.
     
  14. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    To be fair, the Labour Party's always been on the brink of collapse/break-up. There are simply too many warring factions, willing to sacrifice everything for the sake of some illusory ideological purity.
     
  15. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Of course, it's true that Labour has always been a broad church, which inevitably creates internal tension. Still, the ideological battles of the past seem much more civilised, in retrospect:



    Contrast Corbyn's (and Livingstone's) calm and quite generous assessment of Kinnock with the screaming hatred directed at Corbyn (which continues, in some quarters, months after he resigned as leader).
     
  16. russel

    russel ./_dazed_and_confused

    Unlike the Tories where if you don’t like their principles they will happily sell you ones you do.
     
  17. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    I don’t keep up with the insides of the Labour party.

    Since it became known what these Labour right-wing moderates (pricks) were getting upto, have they not been ‘moved on’? eg sacked
     
  18. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    Kinnock went quietly when it became clear he couldn't win an election, and didn't, as far as I can recall, criticise Blair once he had succeeded as leader. Contrast that with Corbyn who seems intent on dragging on with a court battle that will cost the Party lots of money if it goes ahead. Also, I don't remember the exit of the 'Gang of Four' being particularly 'civilised'. Indeed Jenkins et al are still being blamed (somewhat implausibly) for Labour's defeat in 1983.

    The problem is that the desire for ideological purity means that winning elections isn't enough, so some Labour supporters have to hark back to the dim and distant past of getting on for fifty years ago to find a winning leader who meets their requirements (with a nod to the 'what might have been' had John Smith lived).
     
    lordsummit likes this.
  19. droodzilla

    droodzilla pfm Member

    Most of them have already moved on, though they remain members of the party. I believe that some of them have been suspended, pending investigation. There is also an internal inquiry into the issues raised by the leaked document, and how it was leaked.

    The killer twist is that some of the individuals (including former general secretary, Iain McNicol) involved in those revolting exchanges are suing the Labour Party for libel, breaches of data protection etc. They have no shame.
     
    Brian likes this.
  20. Joe Hutch

    Joe Hutch Mate of the bloke

    If one regards Blair as a Tory (as many on here seem to do), the Tories have been in power since 1979, apart from two years when Brown was PM. So maybe expediency wins over purity. Or, as the saying goes, sometimes the best is the enemy of the good.
     
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