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Next Labour Leader II

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Seanm said:
It's antisemitic to insist that a British Jewish organisation condemn Israeli violence, same as it's Islamophobic to insist that a British Muslim organisation condemn ISIS. So she's right there as far as I'm concerned. The question for me is whether her hair-trigger response comes from an immediate grasp of that or whether it meant, "F--- do I care, I'm doing a purge anyway".

It's the Scotland answer that troubles me more. Scotland's gone anyway, it's not going to come back because we get a new (English) leader who's a bit better at playing Andrew Neil's game. But aligning the party with Madrid's police violence over Catalonia's insurgent demand for autonomy...It's the mask slipping IMO. She's BlueKIP. English nationalist.
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Yes, I thought Neil had framed the question differently, but having listened back again I can see he framed the question as you say.

Agree about the hair trigger though
 
notaclue said:
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Long-Bailey will have Momentum behind her https://www.theguardian.com/politic...poll-labour-leadership?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other and will tell the members what they want to hear. I think the likely winner unless she proves a poor performer. And recent media showings suggest she is actually getting stronger as a performer.
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Unfortunately telling Labour Party members what they want to here and winning elections are two different things. Of course there is some overlap, but I simply can't see her appealing to a wider electorate, no matter how much she improves her performance.
 
Seanm said:
It's antisemitic to insist that a British Jewish organisation condemn Israeli violence, same as it's Islamophobic to insist that a British Muslim organisation condemn ISIS. So she's right there as far as I'm concerned. The question for me is whether her hair-trigger response comes from an immediate grasp of that or whether it meant, "F--- do I care, I'm doing a purge anyway".

It's the Scotland answer that troubles me more. Scotland's gone anyway, it's not going to come back because we get a new (English) leader who's a bit better at playing Andrew Neil's game. But aligning the party with Madrid's police violence over Catalonia's insurgent demand for autonomy...It's the mask slipping IMO. She's BlueKIP. English nationalist.
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I agree about Catalonia. I think the bigger question re AS is really about Palestinian people being able describe the history of their oppression and to garner support from the worldwide community. It would be a cause for expulsion from Labour for talking about ethnic cleansing, for example, the same for supporting someone who is expelled. It would also be AS not to follow the conservative jewish narrative in the UK i.e. a pro-zionist outlook. It's very disturbing.
 
Democracy in the Labour Party? Don’t make me laugh. The rules are set up to ensure the unions and Momentum broadly get what they want.
As for Israel; the LP would do better if they focussed on other things and adopted the PFM moderation system ie. ban discussions regarding Israel and Jews.
 
gavreid said:
I know - you're still a bit sore because nobody replied to your Momentum bashing post yesterday ;) Why on earth is RLB in bed with Rayner and not supporting Burgon or even Dawn Butler?
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I'm really not, well OK a little. It wasn't bashing as such but can see how it could upset the faithful who are rather sensitive.

They share a flat so it would be a bit awkward if they didn't share a similar world view.

Isn't Burgon a bit of a liability?
 
gavreid said:
I agree about Catalonia. I think the bigger question re AS is really about Palestinian people being able describe the history of their oppression and to garner support from the worldwide community. It would be a cause for expulsion from Labour for talking about ethnic cleansing, for example, the same for supporting someone who is expelled. It would also be AS not to follow the conservative jewish narrative in the UK i.e. a pro-zionist outlook. It's very disturbing.
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Palestine may be the Big Big picture but IMO it's almost irrelevant to the instrumentalisation of AS in the UK, which is mostly about giving the right and centre a stick to beat the left with (and in time, for the right to beat the centre with). The left doesn't exactly help itself here, in fairness. The US left manages to support Palestine without banging on about Israeli agents the whole time for instance. No idea what the answer to all this is or how it will play out in the leadership election. If any of them can defuse it without promising to purge absolutely everyone to the left of Jess Phillips that will be quite a feat.
 
Woodface said:
I'm really not, well OK a little. It wasn't bashing as such but can see how it could upset the faithful who are rather sensitive.

They share a flat so it would be a bit awkward if they didn't share a similar world view.

Isn't Burgon a bit of a liability?
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IME most people treat Momentum as a kind of resource, it's not really a point of identification. The ballot is a joke.
 
Seanm said:
IME most people treat Momentum as a kind of resource, it's not really a point of identification. The ballot is a joke.
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I half expected rebuke for pointing it out but it shows how the organisation can self harm, bit of an open goal but it's not like there is an election to fight any time soon. I wonder how much attention the media will end up giving to the leadership election. As ome one once said "there's only one thing worse than being talked about..."
 
Seanm said:
Palestine may be the Big Big picture but IMO it's almost irrelevant to the instrumentalisation of AS in the UK, which is mostly about giving the right and centre a stick to beat the left with (and in time, for the right to beat the centre with). The left doesn't exactly help itself here, in fairness. The US left manages to support Palestine without banging on about Israeli agents the whole time for instance. No idea what the answer to all this is or how it will play out in the leadership election. If any of them can defuse it without promising to purge absolutely everyone to the left of Jess Phillips that will be quite a feat.
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Even Sanders is being called an antisemite now! I'm not sure that the US is very different, just nobody has really been a threat to the pro-Israel lobby thus far
 
Can't we just fast forward and get someone elected? The present incumbent appears to already be on the allotment.

"Corbyn has developed new strategies for making himself look utterly hopeless. On the face of it, six questions on the disastrous A&E and cancer waiting-time figures should have been an easy win for Labour, given that the Tories had been in charge of the NHS for a decade.

You’d have thought that Matt Hancock’s announcement earlier in the day that the people’s government was planning on dropping its A&E targets was an open goal. What better way to meet targets than by not having any? That way, it was almost as if no one need ever die. And even if they did, who was really that interested in counting up all the dead bodies on trolleys? Such a waste of everyone’s time. But Corbyn didn’t appear to have heard the news that had dominated the headlines all morning. So he didn’t bother to mention it."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ling-for-fight-after-corbyn-goes-missing-pmqs
 
We appear to have two contradictory threads going on here. One is looking back the other is looking forward. Do we need two threads, the one looking back could be something suitable like “Corbyn, what a joke? hahaha” and the other looking forward to the next leader of the party called something catchy like “Next Labour Leader III”?
 
SteveS1 said:
Can't we just fast forward and get someone elected? The present incumbent appears to already be on the allotment.

"Corbyn has developed new strategies for making himself look utterly hopeless. On the face of it, six questions on the disastrous A&E and cancer waiting-time figures should have been an easy win for Labour, given that the Tories had been in charge of the NHS for a decade.

You’d have thought that Matt Hancock’s announcement earlier in the day that the people’s government was planning on dropping its A&E targets was an open goal. What better way to meet targets than by not having any? That way, it was almost as if no one need ever die. And even if they did, who was really that interested in counting up all the dead bodies on trolleys? Such a waste of everyone’s time. But Corbyn didn’t appear to have heard the news that had dominated the headlines all morning. So he didn’t bother to mention it."

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ling-for-fight-after-corbyn-goes-missing-pmqs
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Hilarious stuff. Of course Johnson’s ability to go on repeating the same lies month after month has nothing to do with Crace and his pals. Not much they can do about it is there! The only person who can possibly challenge these widely disseminated falsehoods is some old c—- at the weekly debating club. He really needs to up his game!
 
RLB and Starmer well out infront amongst Labour members voting intentions.

If RLB gets in, Labour may as well hand the next election on the plate to the Tories. Do the party members actually care about Labour being electable?

Nandy was very impressive in the Neil interview last night. She'd make a great leader if you ask me and out of all the candidates is the one who stands the best chance of winning over the voters in its former "Red Wall" heartlands.
 
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