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Next Labour Leader II

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Good stuff from Clive Lewis:

https://www.cliveforleader.com/manifesto/

It reflects badly on the PLP that he only has 4 nominations so far - partly, I suspect, because he doesn't fit neatly into any of the current factions. If you're inclined to change that, sign this petition:

https://www.change.org/p/labour-mps...date-for-leader-get-clive-lewis-on-the-ballot

I'm not sure I'll vote for him but he's got some good ideas and I want to hear more.

I'm not dead against Starmer but he's not the silver bullet some people here seem to think he is (e.g. he's the easiest candidate, by far, to tar with the "Remoaner" brush - not good if we want to win back Leave seats).

RLB effed up royally with her 10/10 answer - it guarantees Labour will be beaten with it forever if she wins.

Thornberry has no traction with the "men with ven" we want to persuade, whatever her other merits.

Jess Phillips is too awful to contemplate. Leave-the-party awful.

Time to look again at Nandy?!
The last line of my previous post was a little tongue in cheek but, intrigued by the positive comments, I did watch Andrew Neil's interview with Nandy. I found it a mixed bag.

Positives:
1. She told Andrew Neil to shut up.
2. She told him to shut up for a good reason - to develop a line of thought. In a soundbite political culture, this is to be applauded.
3. She was positive about freedom of movement (with certain qualifications).
4. She pushed back against Andrew Neil's suggestion that her constituents voted against freedom of movement. I broadly agreed with her analysis (contra many members here who have repeatedly smeared Leave voters as "gammon").
5. Quite a lot of emphasis on creating sustainable growth (without ever calling it the "green new deal"), while acknowledging people's fears about the loss of jobs in (what's left of) traditional industry.
6. The emphasis on communicating policy in language that connects with people's everyday experience.
7. Not as much "cultural conservativism" as I expected (hardly any, in fact).
7. Some brief, clear answers to the quickfire policy questions at the end. Mostly sensible.

Negatives:
1. A bit vague on policy in other areas (e.g.how does she see giving power back to the people working in practice).
2. Over-reliance on the "brave choice" soundbite.
3. I fear she will surrender too much of the ground gained pushing the Overton wndow leftwards in the last few years.
4. Not enough about building a movement and using the mass membership on the ground (to be fair this stuff doesn't interest mainstream journalists so it never comes up).
5. Her claim that Corbyn defended Russia in the Skripal case is egregious. He insisted on seeing the evidence and following international law (something Nandy said she believed in earlier).
6. Her reply to the EHRC question was fine but her willingness to pronounce judgement, on the fly, on a named Twitter activist's alleged anti-semitism was disturbing.

She's an interesting candidate with, perhaps, more power to cut through and galvanise support where it's needed than Starmer. As a working class lad from a Northern town, I want to believe in her but I do worry about the political positions she will adopt under the intense pressure she'll face if she wins.
 
Nandy won't do well with some sections of Labour if she keeps on pointing out things like the Skripal poisoning showed that "At a crucial moment, we hesitated in condemning an authoritarian regime that supports Trump, invades its neighbours, steals its country's wealth, interferes in elections in Europe and America, attacks minority communities and then used chemical weapons on the streets of the UK. "We stood with the Russian government, and not with the people it oppresses, who suffer poverty and discrimination. We failed the test of solidarity."
 
5. Her claim that Corbyn defended Russia in the Skripal case is egregious. He insisted on seeing the evidence and following international law (something Nandy said she believed in earlier).

Corbyn insisted on seeing the evidence after other countries like France and Germany were convinced that Putin was responsible. He asked 'was it rogue actors within the Russian state' and can we believe British Intelligence anyway? It all seemed like he had more solidarity with Russia than with the UK. Even when the Russian explanations reached Monty Python levels of surrealism and the evidence became clear, Corbyn did not change his tune.
 
Lisa Nancy’s playing well in Scotland, enthusing about Madrid’s crackdown on Catalonian politicians, journalists and protesters. Leonard must feel like throwing in the towel.
 
Corbyn insisted on seeing the evidence after other countries like France and Germany were convinced that Putin was responsible. He asked 'was it rogue actors within the Russian state' and can we believe British Intelligence anyway? It all seemed like he had more solidarity with Russia than with the UK. Even when the Russian explanations reached Monty Python levels of surrealism and the evidence became clear, Corbyn did not change his tune.

Not getting dragged into pointless arguments but, for the record: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-says-accepts-evidence-13312716
 
Yes. Should have added that to the list of negatives. Poor.

Cheerio!
Tactically they’d be better remaining silent on the matter, in fact forget Scotland, it’s already left. Focus purely on English issues and form a separate party in Scotland in readiness for the future.
 
Exactly the opposite of what I am thinking..

For me personally, modern electoral trends seem to put personality above politics. Honesty, rational argument and consistency has nothing to do with it. Had they been relevant, in my personal opinion, neither BJ or Trump would be heading up their prospective nations in 2020. Neither of them had anything but lies and a television style personality to go with them.

I'm sure Cummings spends far longer advising as to how to, repeatedly and concisely, deliver a message, than he does actually considering the message itself. It seems to be modern day electoral politics. Soundbites regardless of truth or substance. Repeated ad infinitum across all media platforms. It is affective and it works.

Not enough of the electorate stop to say "Hey! What if?". Nor do they want to listen to the "What if" as we have seen from the entrenched positions on Brexit and Trump's presidency despite those "What ifs" becoming louder and louder from more and more highly respected experts in their fields.

That is a problem. I thoroughly agreed with Lisa on almost everything and she was a breath of fresh air. She told Neil what he was doing and to stop. She took the time to explain her arguments and she could well appeal to the younger voters who have undoubtedly become tired of clones in suits. Yet...An election campaign and the media covering it will not have time for that - nor will the majority as I said, have an interest.

They will see the headline on the Sun or the Mail, the Telegraph or the BBC. They will read the short outraged tweets from Conservative media that are able to misrepresent Lisa's comments is short messages that go viral and hit every connected member of the UK electorate straight in the face.

All this despite the better informed, with a little time on their hands, probing more deeply, listening to the argument and weighing up the pros and cons.

That for me is the reality of a modern day democratic election. Firstly, the Candidate has to be immediately recognisable and characterful. After that the message they deliver must be concise and designed to appeal to the majority rather than being overtly truthful. Finally, that message and that image has to be everywhere everyone looks - repeatedly throughout a campaign.

Doing that, following those core ideals, seems to result in victory in this post truth world. I can't see how Lisa fits into that world I'm afraid. As a constituency MP? Sure. As a Flagpole for a Party and a Nation to be tied to? Not without said Nation changing IMHO.
 
Good but even RLB is going to drag Labour to the right. Any criticism of Israel will not be tolerated - they've all accepted a 10 point list of pledges from the Board of Deputies. A mass witch hunt will follow as Labour falls in behind Trump...
OK Wolfie
 
Good but even RLB is going to drag Labour to the right. Any criticism of Israel will not be tolerated - they've all accepted a 10 point list of pledges from the Board of Deputies. A mass witch hunt will follow as Labour falls in behind Trump...
I liked Nancy, but her answer to the AS question was disturbing. How is it anti Semitic to condemn Israeli bombing in Gaza? If we accept that this is AS, then isn’t Israel is beyond any sort of criticism for it’s military actions?
 
It's interesting that the right wing media are saying that RBL would be a gift that keeps giving, Phillips a goby cow, Starmer a blinkered remainer, Thornbury a patronising and condescending loudmouth, but Nandy too nice and sensible to be leader.
 
I liked Nancy, but her answer to the AS question was disturbing. How is it anti Semitic to condemn Israeli bombing in Gaza? If we accept that this is AS, then isn’t Israel is beyond any sort of criticism for it’s military actions?
It's antisemitic to insist that a British Jewish organisation condemn Israeli violence, same as it's Islamophobic to insist that a British Muslim organisation condemn ISIS. So she's right there as far as I'm concerned. The question for me is whether her hair-trigger response comes from an immediate grasp of that or whether it meant, "F--- do I care, I'm doing a purge anyway".

It's the Scotland answer that troubles me more. Scotland's gone anyway, it's not going to come back because we get a new (English) leader who's a bit better at playing Andrew Neil's game. But aligning the party with Madrid's police violence over Catalonia's insurgent demand for autonomy...It's the mask slipping IMO. She's BlueKIP. English nationalist.
 
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