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Need fast speakers

Old Shatterhand said:
You posted this before here #57 and I reply with the same answer from my reply #60

What you totally miss is that these guys are talking about studio monitors in studio environment = acoustic treated rooms including bass absorption!
With the SHL5 plus in my 14sqm room I have had very high bass mode peaks up to 15db, withe the C7 X.D. to a lesser degree and with the Graham Chartwell LS3/5a even less. Because of the near field listening position I didn't have to turn the volume up that far compared to a bigger speaker in a bigger room with a bigger listening distance.

I have tested even bigger speakers with a 10" midbass driver in that room and not only the room mode peaks were higher, the reverberation time was ridicules high.

Therefore your "it is a myth" isn't true.

BTW: Please show me the part where it is stated (and why) bigger speakers work better in smaller rooms compared to smaller speakers.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my last question!
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He's right. It's a myth.

The size of the speaker is irrelevant.
 
Not the physical size of the speaker but the extension and f3 of the bass ( the frequency at which the bass rolls of 3dB ) re bass drivers it is the total displacement ie the radiating area of the cone/cones and the x-max .
Keith
 
oldius said:
The first thing to probably say is that each speaker is 41kg and a sealed box.
Next we have the first ever Beryllium tweeter AND midrange. I think the latter is still a first because of the expense and danger of working with the material.
So, I think it is a combination, but the speaker was designed to be highly responsive. Given the right amplification, I am still astounded by what they do.
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I didn’t realise they weighed so much. I’ve never heard them but the design when you think about it is truly remarkable.
 
TheDecameron said:
I didn’t realise they weighed so much. I’ve never heard them but the design when you think about it is truly remarkable.
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I used to have a slightly fettled pair of NS1000Ms (re-wired - improved binding posts - gloss red cabinets) and do miss these amazing speakers from time to time.

There are plenty of detailed reviews of these classics on t’interwebs:

https://www.hifinews.com/content/yamaha-ns-1000m-loudspeakers

https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/yamaha_ns1000m_passive_e.html
 
Tel said:
I have had ESL (ML and Quad) and high efficiency box speakers and nothing comes close.
I wouldn’t go back
All the very best systems I have ever heard have been horns.
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Of all my memories of hifi shows past, the Impulse room still stays with me and not least the H6, which was not a behemoth by any means.

Ayya Khema said:
Big speakers work in good small rooms
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One such being Briks; however, they were fine in big rooms too.
 
I use both 18" and 12" in my 3/4 way speakers, they work perfectly in large or very small rooms (4 x2.6 is the smallest i've used them in)
But they are not in bass reflex cabs.

In my view most speakers dont reproduce live instruments in the way they actually sound.
It the leading edges that are missing to some extent. Both amplifiers and speakers can be responsible in my experence.

In my view most don't understand or recognise the negative effects most kit has on the original signal.
But its not there to be heard in your listening room because the amp and speakers have not recreated the original but a version of it, and it's up to the listener to be happy with how convincing that is. To me that explains the positive opinions about kit I would possibly dismiss

Bass reflex speakers produce distorted bass at levels dependent on the design, but what they do is boost the volume of parts of the low frequencies well, and that's great until you learn to recognise that it's not actually been reproduced that accurately.
If a double bass was being played live in your listening room would you hear that boom or that heavy sound many/most bass reflex speakers provide ?
Ive no doubt that sound may well be a great effect in a nightclub
 
Old Shatterhand said:
You posted this before here #57 and I reply with the same answer from my reply #60

What you totally miss is that these guys are talking about studio monitors in studio environment = acoustic treated rooms including bass absorption!
With the SHL5 plus in my 14sqm room I have had very high bass mode peaks up to 15db, withe the C7 X.D. to a lesser degree and with the Graham Chartwell LS3/5a even less. Because of the near field listening position I didn't have to turn the volume up that far compared to a bigger speaker in a bigger room with a bigger listening distance.

I have tested even bigger speakers with a 10" midbass driver in that room and not only the room mode peaks were higher, the reverberation time was ridicules high.

Therefore your "it is a myth" isn't true.

BTW: Please show me the part where it is stated (and why) bigger speakers work better in smaller rooms compared to smaller speakers.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my last question!
Click to expand...
How to say this: ive stated my experience. You state yours. Your experience with big speaker in your room is that it shows just how bad your room is.
im just very happy to have finally ended my constant dissatisfaction and went big. I now fully realize how in denial i was about it.
One audition of tannoy red in 150l cabs in your room will make anyone notice a few things theyd like in their 8” based bcc speaker

The thread ive linked is quite obvious that yes, absorption is a must if anyone wants hifidelity.
Then, use as big a speaker as possible as they smooth room modes vs smaller woofers

You tried a 10” and your room was overwhelmed. you should ask professional acoustician what they recommend in those instance.you might be surprised by their answers
 
@Ayya Khema : So how deap does the Tannoy Red play? As I said, if it plays full level down to 50Hz it will cause big room problems. Your Tannoy Red doesn't have a very low -3dB point, the 10" I used plays down to 40Hz @ -3dB (without room enforcement). You can't install passive absorption in 14sqm room that can effectively absorb such frequencies. So your statement with a bad and a good room is nonsense. I talked to a professional from GIK Acoustics in Germany who confirmed what I said, that the room is too tiny and that even with membrane absorption the can't guarantee to fix that problem.

Most of what I have written in this post, I have already written in #95.

How big is your room, maybe you'd be so kind and show us some photos and measurements that confirm what you are claiming.

I can post measurements and photos of the room which will proof what I'm saying.

BTW: Your speaker https://www.speakerbuddies.eu/de/bausaetze/offene-projekte/seas-a26.html is already down about -20 db@ 29Hz so you can't compare it to the Harbeth SHL5+ with the -6dB point @ 29Hz!
 
Old Shatterhand said:
@Ayya Khema : So how deap does the Tannoy Red play? As I said, if it plays full level down to 50Hz it will cause big room problems. Your Tannoy Red doesn't have a very low -3dB point, the 10" I used plays down to 40Hz @ -3dB (without room enforcement). You can't install passive absorption in 14sqm room that can effectively absorb such frequencies. So your statement with a bad and a good room is nonsense. I talked to a professional from GIK Acoustics in Germany who confirmed what I said, that the room is too tiny and that even with membrane absorption the can't guarantee to fix that problem.

Most of what I have written in this post, I have already written in #95.

How big is your room, maybe you'd be so kind and show us some photos and measurements that confirm what you are claiming.

I can post measurements and photos of the room which will proof what I'm saying.

BTW: Your speaker https://www.speakerbuddies.eu/de/bausaetze/offene-projekte/seas-a26.html is already down about -20 db@ 29Hz so you can't compare it to the Harbeth SHL5+ with the -6dB point @ 29Hz!
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I dont use big tannoy. I used to. Also used to have shl5plus. If you think itss the summum of bass performance, your deluded to no end

Big woofers has nothing to do with bass extension.
The size of the room is irrelevant.

Im not debating with you, im stating facts that you are unable to accept. Youve been obviously convinced that big speakers dont work in smallish rooms.
Your lost!
 
I think the issue of compatibility between large speakers and small rooms is a question of baffle-step compensation. Simply put, if a speaker is designed to work in an open space, it will boom heavily in a small room. If, on the other hand, the speaker has been designed to work next to a wall, there will be no boom.
Having studied the AFC of the Seas A26, I can suggest that because of the decline in low frequencies, starting from 100 Hz, this speaker will not boom in small rooms, but due to the large driver it will create a sense of scale. So I understand Ayya Khema's opinion.
So this argument is not appropriate in the context of different completely different loudspeakers with different concepts.
 
Ayya Khema said:
Big woofers has nothing to do with bass extension.
The size of the room is irrelevant. Im not debating with you, im stating facts that you are unable to accept. Youve been obviously convinced that big speakers dont work in smallish rooms
Click to expand...
I didn't say that the woofer size has something to do with the bass extension. I said if you have a big speaker (enclosure and woofer) that does have full loudness @ 50Hz it will cause boom in a small room. Period! If you say the size of the room is irrelevant you don't have a clue about acoustics and interaction of the speaker, which I assumed because of your wrong statements without knowledge.:rolleyes:
 
Old Shatterhand said:
I didn't say that the woofer size has something to do with the bass extension. If you say the size of the room os irrelevant you don't have a clue about acoustics, which I assumed because of your wrong statements without knowledge.:rolleyes:
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Lol
Professional acousticians is not enough for you?

enjoy your small speakers buddy, nobody cares really
 
Old Shatterhand said:
I didn't say that the woofer size has something to do with the bass extension. I said if you have a big speaker (enclosure and woofer) that does have full loudness @ 50Hz it will cause boom in a small room. Period! If you say the size of the room is irrelevant you don't have a clue about acoustics and interaction of the speaker, which I assumed because of your wrong statements without knowledge.:rolleyes:
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Hahaha
So small rooms equals 50hz boom
And im the one being called ignorant. Its really those who attack that are the clueless one. Every time.
Small room= 50hz boom!
 
About fast speakers. I think it's a matter of proper calculations, a lightweight cone, a powerful magnet system and the correct acoustic design of the speaker.
My room is 323 square feet, but I'm also considering near-field speakers. So space is not the main issue here.
 
Ayya Khema said:
Hahaha
So small rooms equals 50hz boom
And im the one being called ignorant. Its really those who attack that are the clueless one. Every time.
Small room= 50hz boom!
Click to expand...
Boy, you constantly stating things I didn't said. Please show me the sentence where I said that small rooms equals 50Hz modes and where I called you ignorant.:rolleyes:
 
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